Serial Number

**BNH** · 15th May 2009, 13:22

I recently bought at auction an M1911. It seems to have the proper markings and reads "Model of 1911 US Army" on the right side. However, I cannot find a serial number and, upon closer inspection, it appears the number may have been sanded or ground off (above trigger on right side).

Assuming there is no way to restore or read this number, is there another number on the pistol?

How does this effect the value?

Pistol is in very good shape, some blueing remains. Even where number has been removed (if that is the case) the scratches are very fine.

Thanks

**Jim Watson** · 15th May 2009, 14:08

It is illegal to remove the serial number or to even possess a gun with the serial number removed. "Contraband", the feds say.

The value is 5 years in the pen and/or a $10,000 fine if the feds should decide to prosecute instead of just taking it away from you. No doubt you could stash it out, they are not doing house-to-house searches for guns to seize... yet. But it has NO resale value, and is a large legal liability.

I don't think a 1911 has the serial number anywhere else, although one series of 1911A1s does.

What kind of auction? Any professional auctioneer around here will have firearms run through a FFL for the required paperwork.

**bgiven** · 15th May 2009, 14:16

I thought it was 10 years....?????

Any firearm with an altered, defaced, or removed serial number is nothing but bad news. In some cases, GIs used to remove US Property marks and serial numbers on 'liberated' examples brought home in their duffel bags. Is unfortunate, but some family members have some heirlooms that can certainly cause someone a lot of trouble. I understand the BATF doesn't care who did it, but they do care who owns it. Possession is the key.....the key to the 'Big House'.

**TJH3781** · 15th May 2009, 16:47

I trust you have your receipt on the purchase. My thinking is that you are the victim of a crime and/or a fraud. The longer you wait to divest yourself of it, the problem gets more complicated. I would consult an attorney on how to deliver it to your local Law Enforcement without it ending in your arrest. Then I would demand whatever I paid for it back from the Auctioneer.

I do not have a lot of current experience or legal information on your issue. Several years ago, a friend's uncle died & the widow wanted his guns out of the house. He had a WWII Thompson & several WWII Grenades in the attic. My recollection is, they were seized as contraband & forfeited. I believe the State's Attorney actually notified her of the condemnation suit in case if she wanted to object to it!

**1saxman** · 17th May 2009, 15:52

'Possession is the key.....the key to the 'Big House'.'

Well put indeed. I would take it back to the place I got it, turn it over to them and get my money back, along with a hand receipt for returning it.

OD* · 17th May 2009, 16:15

Originally Posted by Jim Watson

It is illegal to remove the serial number or to even possess a gun with the serial number removed. "Contraband", the feds say.

The value is 5 years in the pen and/or a $10,000 fine if the feds should decide to prosecute instead of just taking it away from you. No doubt you could stash it out, they are not doing house-to-house searches for guns to seize... yet. But it has NO resale value, and is a large legal liability.

I don't think a 1911 has the serial number anywhere else, although one series of 1911A1s does.

What kind of auction? Any professional auctioneer around here will have firearms run through a FFL for the required paperwork.

You could call the BATFE (from a pay phone

), there is a way you can have a serial number given to the pistol by the ATF, or you use to be able too, I have one done by them.

**Johnny Peppers** · 17th May 2009, 16:19

The second problem is that the value of the pistol has been ruined. If collector price was paid for the pistol, he should get a refund. If the pistol could not be examined, it should have been noted that the pistol had no serial number.