1911 Magazine Identification

[Hafdasa]

Two argentinian companies converted a number of caliber .45 pistols into caliber .22 guns. One of these companies was Establecimientos Venturini. The magazines that were used by Venturini are of the pattern shown in Doran's post dated June 28. Venturini converted a large number of Sistema Colt pistols to caliber .22 but only a few Ballester-Molina. The other company that undertook this task was Industrias Marcati. Marcati used for their conversion the magazines shown in Doran's posting dated July 4. These magazines are believed to be the magazines that Marcati used in the caliber .22 rifles of their manufacture but modified to fit in the magazine well of the caliber .45 pistols. This is the purpose of the spacer that appears on the rear of the magazine. Marcati converted a large number of Sistema Colt and Ballester-Molina pistols as well. Almost all known Ballester-Molina pistols that were converted to caliber .22 LR were converted by Marcati.

The conversion undertaken by Industrias Marcati and Establecimientos Venturini was an "aftermarket" project, meaning that these companies converted pistols originally made in caliber .45 ACP and had no relationship with either HAFDASA or the DGFM-FMAP.

The DGFM-FMAP did not manufacture pistols in caliber 22 LR or converted pistols originally made in caliber 45.

HAFDASA manufactured a number of Ballester-Molina in caliber .22 LR. These pistols are for practical purposes clones of the Colt Service Ace, meaning that they were built at the factory for the rimfire cartridge. Due to the fact that the caliber 22 Ballester-Molina pistols were built as such and are not the product of a conversion, their workmanship and overall quality is outstanding. If my memory deserves me well, the HAFDASA magazines are very similar, if not the same as those of the Colt ACE.

[Doran]

Thank you for the additional information concerning Argentina conversion magazines. Reviewing some past correspondence with other collectors I remembered the Ballester magazines, not the Sistema, closely resemble or are possibly unmarked Colt Ace magazines. Mr. Clawson's Commercial Series book shows pictures of a Sistema .22 calibre prototype that apparently never made it to full production.

[OD*]

Thanks for the additional information added to post #15, Doran.
http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.ph...034#post266034

[Doran]

Two marking styles of Halcon magazines. A fellow collector in Argentina tells me ARCEN should be ARGEN and that IND. ARGEN or IND. ARGENTINA signifies "made in Argentina." Babel fish translates HALCON to hawk or falcon. The company produced various arms and parts including 1911 barrels and magazines. These examples likely refinished with a flat black epoxy as I've also observed polished blue.

The link below provides historical information about the company but babel fish has difficulty translating some of the technical terms. It appears the company may have patented the process for hammer forging barrels but perhaps another member could give a clearer interpretation.

http://www.rs.ejercito.mil.ar/Conten...3/Td/armas.htm

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[Hafdasa]

The magazines shown in the last posting are replacement magazines for the caliber .45 pistols. These magazines were made by an Argentinean company with the name of Metalurgica Centro. One of the trademarks used by Metalurgica Centro is Halcon and many of their products were marked Halcon, such as submachine guns. Metalurgica Centro also made replacement barrels and other minor parts for the caliber .45 pistols.

[Doran]

Perhaps another member knows the maker or significance of the marking.



A collector with contacts in Argentina says this mark represents a stylized M for Marina, or Navy. I'd studied the mark from all angles and noticed a possible "M" but the connection to M for Marina escaped me.

[garrettwc]

Forum member RetiredFed contacted me off board for help in identifying a magazine that had him stumped. We have determined that it is a variation of one of the WWI American Pin Co. mags. With his permission, I am posting the notes and the images here for commentary from Doran, or anyone else that can confirm our findings, and/or give more details about this mag.

Magazine has an "A" on the lip which according to Mr Clawson's Collector's Guide, indicates an American Pin Co, Waterbury, Conn. manufacturer during WWI. However, as indicated in the photos, the mag is pinned, does not have a lanyard loop and with so much of the finish gone, hard to tell if it ever was two toned but I doubt it was. Is not spot welded on the back. Or maybe it is not an American Pin Co mag and the "A" is from another company? Any help in ID'ing this magazine would be appreciated.

[Doran]

American Pin magazine with the follower likely replaced. All issue magazines of that era exhibited pin construction and two tone finish. American Pin produced magazines during the WWI era; a couple years or so after lanyard loops ceased in 1915.

The stamps seemed to frequently fill in with metal dust, etc as many of the American Pin marks more resemble V rather than A. Wide variation in letter height and width appears although all I've observed had Roman font with the letter base toward the magazine body as this example. I also believe some production was hand stamped due to variation and partial strikes.

[RetiredFed]

Awhile back I was lucky enough to score a cache of .45 related ammo, holsters, belts etc. Included were a number of magazines that I'd like to share. The first pic is of two mags that were in a GI ammo pouch that I doubt had ever seen the inside of a pistol.

The other two I could use some help on. As you can see, Colt over .45 AUTO. (The one mag has a small 04 near the edge) Any idea on what the 04 means? Years that particular mag was made? Thanks in advance.

[Doran]

I realize that I've made an identification error concerning the upper magazine. The earlier magazines had the one mark after AUTO, not before 45, and technically the mark after AUTO is a period not a decimal pt. Decimal pts on both magazines indicates both are later style. I don't see a trace of the period in the upper magazine but that might indicate a light strike as the font looks correct, to me anyway. I apologize for any confusion I may have caused.