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Thread: 1911 external modifications for EIC pistol match

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  1. #1
    Join Date
    27th October 2011
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    1911 external modifications for EIC pistol match

    I just got a brand new 1911 and am going to shoot it and slowly work it up into a EIC pistol. One of the first things I'd like to do is round out the edges of the grip safety as I've got the telltale scab on the web of my hand from shooting 200 rounds on Saturday. Beavertails are not legal and "any external modification not included in the rules" is not legal but I was wondering if that extended to simply adding a radius to the upper part of the grip safety.

    Anyone with EIC experience?

  2. #2
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    15th September 2006
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    Hardball gun specs

    If you are going to compete in EIC matches, your 1911 my meet some very specific specs. These specs are outlined in the Bullseye pistolbook. Here is an excerpt of this manual specifically addressing the requirements for an EIC pistol. Email me if you have further questions if you like mthomas62@cox.net

    3.1.1 U.S. pistol, Caliber .45 M1911 or 1911A1 or a commercial pistol of the same type and caliber - The
    stock must not cover the mainspring housing, or prevent holstering in the standard service holster. The stock must
    not be more than 1.3" wide between right and left extremities. The trigger may be extended, adjustable, and
    vented. The mainspring housing may be either straight or arched, checkered or stipples. The mainspring housing
    may not be covered. The slide may have a curved “relief cut” (Gold Cup dimple) at the rear of the ejection port.
    The ejection port may be lowered to aid in ejection. A flat surface may be milled in front of and behind the dovetail
    to aid in securely mounting adjustable rear sights. A cut may be made at the extreme rear of the slide to allow rear
    sight clearance and vertical movement. The distance between sights, measured from the apex of the front sight to
    the rear face of the rear sight must not be more than 7.25".

  3. #3
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    27th October 2011
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    I've read the rule book a few times and there is a line "any external modifications are prohibited" which leads me to believe that anything that they don't say you can do, you can't do. But obviously there is a limit to the strictness of this interpretation, as the RRA pistols are generally accepted but they don't have a radius at the front frame joint of the trigger guard. However there has been some debate on this issue. I ended up filing a light radius on the safety and worked it up with black oxide, I think no one will notice even if it does constitute an illegal modification.

    Before:

    After:

    Closeup:

  4. #4
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    20th June 2005
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    I don't think they'd gig you for what amounts to dehorning an edge. quite frankly a stock gun like that is not going to be competitive in EIC matches. Any basic gun is going to need 700 or so bucks worth of work to make it accurate enough for eic matches

  5. #5
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    I know she's not going to be competitive but I'm not competitive right now either so I figure I might as well practice with what I have in competition and get comfortable with that sequence (and maybe raise the competitor count for others who are actually going for leg points).

    I'm going to eventually fit a KART EZ (i know it's not easy) barrel and see how she does off a ransom, then if I'm no where in the ballpark I'll send it to a smith.

  6. #6
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    15th September 2006
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    EIC gun

    I know for a fact that a drop in Kart barrel is not going to do it for accuracy. You will need to do the following:

    1. get a really good and tight slide to frame fit.
    2. get a good barrel, (Kart, KKM whatever) and have it fit by a professional, preferable at the same time that you get a match bushing installed.
    3. get a nice 4.25 pound trigger installed with a trigger of the correct length for you.
    4. install a good set of Kensight target sights installed.

    By this time you will have some serious money into the gun. And please don't go to just any gunsmith, go to one that is a "bullseye" gunsmith. they are not easy to find but you will be money ahead if you do.

    Good luck

  7. #7
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    27th October 2011
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    Thanks for the notes. My intention is to learn on this gun, both how to shoot a pistol better and how to do some basic gunsmithing. I fully expect to reach a limit where the next obvious step is to buy a LesBear hardball gun or get a smith to work up another 1911. But I'm not going to drop 2k on a gun now when I don't know how far I'll take this.

    As far as I can tell EIC is a competition of "the long hard road". I'll need to shoot a lot just to get to a point where I'm as comfortable with a pistol as I am with a rifle and if I can't find the time to do that or reload enough to do it then I'll only be out the cost of a gun I've always wanted to plink with.

    The wonderful thing about all this is that it is empirical. I don't know what a certain load will do, or what a Kart EZ fit barrel will do but I can work those things and test them at the range and see where it puts me. If at the end of the day I've put another $600 into my RIA 1911 and I'm no where close to as accurate as I need to be then I'll consider it a cheap lesson in the grand scheme of things. Certainly far cheaper than going back to school.

    None of this is to imply that I don't absolutely believe what you are saying, only that I'm the sort of person who has to sit down and do the math all over again to prove it to myself. Not because I don't trust others but because I've found that learning how to do something, and why I need to rely on professionals teaches me more about the pursuit and a greater respect for those who have mastered it.
    Last edited by milotrain; 28th November 2011 at 20:10.


  8. #8
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    15th September 2006
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    EIC gun

    You know it would still be much better for you to use your gun as a "wad gun" and shoot reduced power loads such as a 200 grain SWC behind like 4.2 grains of WST and shoot typical Bullseye matches. You will put many more rounds down range on an 2700 than you will with the 30 rounds of hardball ammo that you shoot in an EIC. Remember you will only be shooting no more than 3 matches a year. Its the same thing with a DR match and revolvers. You don't need to have a Les Baer wad gun to shoot competively. I have a Para Ordinance 45 acp that shot a 5 ring group out of the box. A simple trigger job and a red dot and I was up and running. If you are shooting a gun with target sights, you might already be there already. Have you had your trigger checked? Does you slide to frame fit feel tight? Is your barrel bushing reasonably tight? If the answer to those question is yes, then load up some lead loads and go to it. Start dry firing 30 minutes a day and get your trigger control under control and watch your scores go up.

    Good Luck

  9. #9
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    27th October 2011
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    Penman53 that's great advice. What is "typical Bullseye matches"? Is this NRA or what sanctioning body? I'm very interested but I have no interest whatsoever in optics. I'm an iron sight guy all day. I'd love to shoot more than 3 times a year and it would seem like your suggestion is a great way to get some competition under my belt without jumping into the deep end directly.

    If you are shooting a gun with target sights, you might already be there already. Have you had your trigger checked? Does you slide to frame fit feel tight? Is your barrel bushing reasonably tight? If the answer to those question is yes, then load up some lead loads and go to it. Start dry firing 30 minutes a day and get your trigger control under control and watch your scores go up.
    Trigger feels ok, I'm going to polish the disconnect. The trigger shoe and bow are pretty loose in the frame and that's my only real objection. Slide to frame fit is very tight, no movement. I could put a dial indicator on it and I'm pretty sure I wouldn't see anything over .005" of movement from side to side. Barrel bushing seems loose I can easily remove it without a wrench. However in battery there is little to no movement of the barrel. That's why I was thinking of a Kart EZ fit. Seems like a little more work than a bushing and $100 more but a lot of gain in quality (I won't say accuracy until I try it). I have not put the gun in a ransom so I don't know yet how it shoots. I wanted to put 300 rounds through it before trying to pattern it at 25 yards.

  10. #10
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    15th September 2006
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    EIC gun

    Bullseye matches are typically held at most clubs outdoors during the summer and indoors during the winter. I don't know where you live but if you live back east, there are tons on indoor matches during the year. Here in Oklahoma City we have a club match every first Sunday, and a NRA sanctioned match the third Saturday. These matches start in April and continue through October. We then have indoor matches that started at the first of November through the last week in March. So we pretty much shoot all year long. You can look on the NRA website and find out about bullseye matches in your locality. Now as far as your gun in concerned, I see that you have bone stock 1911A1 sights on your slide, they simply do not work on a bullseye wadgun. You would need to have some Kensight target sights installed on the gun. They would still be perfectly legal for EIC matches still so you are way ahead of the game there. I don't know if you have an accurate 22. But there is good news there also. You can go to marvel precision and get a Unit 1 22 conversion with the iron sight option and have a super accurate 22 using your 1911 lower, it takes about 1 minute to convert your gun to an amazingly accurate 22. for about 350 to 400 dollars. Sometimes on Target talk or the bullseye L forum someone is selling a nice one used for 300 to 350. They also sell them on Midway USA. My personal email address is mthomas62@cox.net. Email me and I can fix you up with any questions you might have about Bullseye pistol.

    Mark Thomas, Edmond Ok

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