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Thread: 1911 LE duty trigger pull

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  1. #1
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    1911 LE duty trigger pull

    My agency is in the process of revising policy to allow other weapons other than Glock. One of the hold-ups is trigger pull. I have Jerry Kuhnhausen's 1911 manual and he recommends 5 lb duty trigger pull. Anyone have any different department policy on duty 1911 trigger pull? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks and stay safe!

  2. #2
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    I'm not an LEO, but I prefer my carry weapons (which means I prefer ALL my 1911s) to have about a 5-pound trigger. I like it, but I think it's really a bit too light for a police duty weapon. However, Bill Laugheridge of Cylinder & Slide doesn't agree with me. His "Professional" trigger kit is a 5-pound kit and is recommended for police duty carry.

    http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=5...GGER_PULL_KITS

    Larry Vickers recommends 4 to 6 pounds: http://vickerstactical.com/tactical-...r-pull-weight/

    The U.S. Army M1911A1 field manual calls for 5-1/2 to 6-1/2 pounds
    http://www.sightm1911.com/manual/manual.htm

    Hope that helps
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside
    Last edited by Hawkmoon; 9th March 2011 at 21:12.


  3. #3
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    Our policy is within factory specs. 4.5-7.5

    LHS

  4. #4
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    Nothing under 4 1/4lbs is my recommendation.

    I won't allow anything lighter either.
    If it isn't durable, it isn't reliable.

  5. #5
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    Thanks for all the info. I checked out the Jerry Kuhnhausen 1911 manual and there is a lot of info packed into that book. The recommendation I'll make is 5 lbs. Thanks for all the info!

  6. #6
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    Cool

    As firearms instructor for my dept., I have made it policy that no pulls below 4.5, and strongly suggest pulls be at 5. This policy was made after much research both on the 'net and the old fashioned book learning! Five pounds seems to be the average suggested by all the top instructors, especially those like Vickers who have been in combat and Ayoob who has first hand "courtroom combat" experiance.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpd202
    As firearms instructor for my dept., I have made it policy that no pulls below 4.5, and strongly suggest pulls be at 5. This policy was made after much research both on the 'net and the old fashioned book learning! Five pounds seems to be the average suggested by all the top instructors, especially those like Vickers who have been in combat and Ayoob who has first hand "courtroom combat" experiance.
    I have touched on this topic with the OP but thought I would put in my two cents for the benefit of debate amongst the community.

    Directly from LV's website:

    "As a general rule a serious use pistol should have a trigger no lighter than 4 pounds and ideally no more than 6 pounds."


    That being said....

    From a shooting times article:

    "Kimber (Dept. ST, One Lawton St., Yonkers, NY 10705; 888-243-4522; www.kimberamerica.com) won by an impressive margin. Kimber makes more than a few 1911-type pistols, but if you're thinking the Kimber tested by LAPD SWAT was one of the top-of-the-line Kimber Custom Shop Target .45s, think again. The pistol the LAPD chose was Kimber's entry level 1911, the Kimber Custom II. A spartan pistol by Kimber standards, the Custom II comes with plenty of special features to qualify its name. These include fixed combat sights (dovetailed front sight), rounded (no-bite) speed hammer, stainless-steel throated barrel, polished feedramp, lowered/flared ejection port, four-pound trigger, extended thumb safety, beavertail grip safety, beveled magazine well, and black checkered rubber grips. Before Kimber most of these features were found only as aftermarket custom options. The Custom II is probably the most .45 ACP 1911 for the money--ever."

    From the SA page regarding the Professional model:

    "The trigger is a Videcki aluminum unit with a set screw to adjust over-travel. The trigger specification calls for a pull weight of no less than four pounds and no more than six pounds. The test pistol consistently measured 4.25 pounds on the RCBS trigger pull scale. The RFP also called for a quick reset and this has been accomplished through proper adjustment of the over-travel setting. When the sear breaks, the trigger stops moving. Period."

    From Hilton Yam at 10-8 Performance:

    "The Springfield 10-8 Operators were specified to have a 4.0-4.75 lb trigger pull, which is the sweet spot on a hand tuned service pistol. The upper limit for a service 1911 is about 5.5 lbs, but in reality what makes or breaks the trigger is not the weight but the quality of the break. I would rather have a 5.5 lb trigger that has a clean break and good reset than a 4 lb trigger that is not clean. Reset is typically overlooked, but it really affects the overall trigger experience."

    I am sure there are sources that claim a 5, 6 or even 8 pound trigger are the best for duty....
    I just personally cannot argue against the likes of Vickers, Yam, the legal team at LAPD, the legal team at the FBI, the legal team at Kimber and the legal team at Springfield. I feel safe in assuming the likes of LAV and HY know what they are talking about based on their reputations and real field experience. In the liability realm I feel safe in assuming SA and Kimber didn't leave themselves hanging in the wind putting non-duty qualified weapons on the market after they were commissioned by agencies such as LAPD and the FBI.

    YMMV

  8. #8
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    Instead of giving a poundage why not word it, "1911's are to be within manufacturer's specifications for trigger pull weight, with no trigger pull to be lower than 4 pounds."

    That would be an easier to obtain goal than specifying that they all must have 4.5#, 5#, or 5.5# triggers. Different manufacturers will have a slightly different factory specifications for each model, depending upon intended usage. Also it takes in to account the well fired and brand new pistols, and how they may differ while still staying within policy. It's the policies that will either help you or convict you in court. Use them to your advantage.

    Personally I like 5# - 6# for a defensive 1911, and as Hilton Yam said, the reset is much more important.

    Biker

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN
    Instead of giving a poundage why not word it, "1911's are to be within manufacturer's specifications for trigger pull weight, with no trigger pull to be lower than 4 pounds."

    That would be an easier to obtain goal than specifying that they all must have 4.5#, 5#, or 5.5# triggers. Different manufacturers will have a slightly different factory specifications for each model, depending upon intended usage. Also it takes in to account the well fired and brand new pistols, and how they may differ while still staying within policy. It's the policies that will either help you or convict you in court. Use them to your advantage.

    Personally I like 5# - 6# for a defensive 1911, and as Hilton Yam said, the reset is much more important.

    Biker
    That's actually the way the purposed policy was worded. The question from the administrative side of things was other trigger pulls (Glock) are listed higher in the policy for a minimum.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN
    Instead of giving a poundage why not word it, "1911's are to be within manufacturer's specifications for trigger pull weight, with no trigger pull to be lower than 4 pounds."

    That would be an easier to obtain goal than specifying that they all must have 4.5#, 5#, or 5.5# triggers. Different manufacturers will have a slightly different factory specifications for each model, depending upon intended usage. Also it takes in to account the well fired and brand new pistols, and how they may differ while still staying within policy. It's the policies that will either help you or convict you in court. Use them to your advantage.

    Personally I like 5# - 6# for a defensive 1911, and as Hilton Yam said, the reset is much more important.

    Biker
    I can concur with Azdogs and BikerRN, with this thought for consideration:

    It's quite practical to meet a minimum specfication (I like 4.5 pounds, but then, I'm a Service Rifle shooter) with the 1911, but nearly impossible for "X" number of pistols to all have, say, a 4.25 lb. trigger pull. You need a bracket, with one end anchored at the minimum acceptable.

    I further concur with Hilton, in that the character of the trigger is more important than the weight, within reason. Again, with a Service Rifle background, it's the break that counts.

    Regards,

    Walt
    Author, The M1911 Complete Assembly Guide,
    The M1911 Complete Owner's Guide, NEW The 10/22 Complete Owner's and Assembly Guide,
    The M14
    and M1 Garand Complete Assembly Guides
    and The AR-15 Complete Assembly and NEW Owner's Guides

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