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Thread: 1911 firearms P&P or General Orders

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  1. #1
    Join Date
    20th January 2010
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    1911 firearms P&P or General Orders

    Greetings,

    I'm a Deputy in California who would like to push for 1911 carry for off/on duty. If not on duty atleast start with off duty carry. I find that carrying a 1911 is more safer than a Glock. Our departments issued weapon is the Glock 17, I currently carry my personal Glock 19 w/ a SF X300 off/on duty.

    What I would like to do is present to the range staff some sort of existing policy and/or additional training that would atleast make them consider and present it to the Sheriff to be reviewed for approval. I know this is a up hill battle, but if I can do my research with hard facts that would be great.

    Is there any LEO that weren't carrying a 1911 before who are now carrying it after presenting a proposal to their department.

    Can any LEO help in this? Thanks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    3rd July 2010
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    Cool

    About 10 years ago, my sgt. and I went to the chief and asked permission to carry 1911's, explaining the fact that they were safe due to the grip safety and thumb safety(as opposed to the trigger safety only on a Glock), , that they point more naturally for "our" hands, and that my nature of the 7-8 rd mag it seemed in some cases, to mitigate "spray and pray" that others observed using double stack 9's or 40's. His reply was if we wanted to carry a gun that old it was okay with him. We had to explain to him what a 1911 was. Then when he granted permission and saw us carrying them (me a Springfield Loaded, sarge a Kimber Tactical II) cocked and locked, he about had a heart attack. So then we had to educate him on the "safeness" of cocked and locked carry(i.e., speed of first shot, accuracy due to lighter trigger, etc). Anyway, moral of this long story is be prepared for the questions of why you want it and why cocked and locked is safe.
    Good luck!
    Quote Originally Posted by barca101
    Greetings,

    I'm a Deputy in California who would like to push for 1911 carry for off/on duty. If not on duty atleast start with off duty carry. I find that carrying a 1911 is more safer than a Glock. Our departments issued weapon is the Glock 17, I currently carry my personal Glock 19 w/ a SF X300 off/on duty.

    What I would like to do is present to the range staff some sort of existing policy and/or additional training that would atleast make them consider and present it to the Sheriff to be reviewed for approval. I know this is a up hill battle, but if I can do my research with hard facts that would be great.

    Is there any LEO that weren't carrying a 1911 before who are now carrying it after presenting a proposal to their department.

    Can any LEO help in this? Thanks

  3. #3
    Join Date
    14th June 2008
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    I am the department range master and I got 1911's approved about 2 1/2 years ago at my dept. I got tons of material and general orders from agencies that were already carrying them. When I went in for the presentation I took my Kimber Tac Custom and my old Glock. I showed my Chief the safeties on the 1911, as opposed to the one trigger safety on the Glock. That was the end of the presentation, he cut me off and said "Add them to the approved pistols list"! I have a good Chief.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    1st June 2004
    Location
    Washington State
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    I would start with talking to whom you're going to make your presentation to. Ask them about their feelings/thoughts about the 1911. If they don't approve/like the gun, I guess I would not want to sound like a 3 year old, but one would have to ask them why, then make sure those points are covered.

    What one usually runs into, is the person who doesn't know, what they don't know. Therefore education is the key, and whoever is making the presentation better have more than just a casual knowledge of the 1911.

    If you have knowledge of the striker fired pistols; Glock, XD & S&W M&P, then you can speak of the gun being cocked as well, its just that one can't see it.

    I had a neighboring Chief that didn't like the 1911, thought they were dangerous. he made a comment about mine, and I told him he didn't know, what he didn't know. Then I made a bet with with;

    I would unload my 1911, cock the hammer, place the thumb safety in the up or safe position, and I would hand it to him. I told him he would have one shot to get the hammer to fall. He could throw it off a building, hit it with a sledge hammer, or lay it on the Interstate and have a truck run over it.

    If the hammer did fall, I would walk away with a broken gun and the conversation would then end. But if the hammer didn't fall, and I told him it wouldn't, I would still walk away with my broken gun, but he had to buy me a 1911 of my choice as well.

    He didn't take the bet, such as people that go thru life with closed minds.

    It appears that glock35 has some convincing material, I would start there. Just make sure you're not antagonistic during the presentation. Stay calm, answer the questions and let the chips fall as they may. As I said above, you may be making a presentation to closed minds.
    If it isn't durable, it isn't reliable.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    29th May 2004
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    And by all means, keep us in the loop.
    John Caradimas SV1CEC
    The M1911 Pistols Organization
    http://www.m1911.org

  6. #6
    Join Date
    19th April 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by glock35
    I am the department range master and I got 1911's approved about 2 1/2 years ago at my dept. I got tons of material and general orders from agencies that were already carrying them. When I went in for the presentation I took my Kimber Tac Custom and my old Glock. I showed my Chief the safeties on the 1911, as opposed to the one trigger safety on the Glock. That was the end of the presentation, he cut me off and said "Add them to the approved pistols list"! I have a good Chief.
    I'd love to get copies of any of that stuff you have available through email. We keep making a push for 1911's, but our command staff's primary complaint is that no one locally allows them.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    14th June 2008
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    Sorry for not getting back to you sooner, I haven't been on the forum for awhile. I will look at my file and see if I still have the material. I will let you know.

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