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Thread: Series 70 drop tests

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  1. #1
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    Series 70 drop tests

    This series of tests was the work of Drake Oldham of Drake's Gun Works.

    Here is the original thread that inspired the larger test:
    Series 70 Drop Test

    and the follow up thread with more extensive testing:
    Drop Test Results

    Thought some here would find these interesting.
    "The 1911 was the design, given by God to us through John M. Browning, that represents the epitome of what a killing tool needs to be. It was true in 1911 and it's true now." - Col. Robert Coates commanding, U.S. Marine Corp Special Operations Command Detachment 1 (DET 1)

  2. #2
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    That was quite interesting to read. Thank you for the links.

  3. #3
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    What I find interesting is that Drake's results totally contradict the earlier test that's reproduced in the Technical Issues of the M1911.ORG Home Page site. That test showed that a 1911 will NOT fire if dropped on the muzzle from a height of (IIRC) 15 feet.
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkmoon
    What I find interesting is that Drake's results totally contradict the earlier test that's reproduced in the Technical Issues of the M1911.ORG Home Page site. That test showed that a 1911 will NOT fire if dropped on the muzzle from a height of (IIRC) 15 feet.
    Here is the direct link to the test Hawkmoon refers to, for those who may not have seen it:
    http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/tech/i..._discharge.htm

    I think the original test you are referring to may have been flawed for two reasons:

    1. After reading it I see that he dropped only the slide assembly(vs. the entire gun), which would mean that considerably less weight, and therefore less force was applied to the impact. (it was also dropped down a pipe which may have added friction/drag to the equation).

    2. It was dropped on asphalt rather than concrete. As anyone who has ever tried to jack up a car on hot asphalt can tell you, it has quite a bit more "give" than hardened concrete.
    "The 1911 was the design, given by God to us through John M. Browning, that represents the epitome of what a killing tool needs to be. It was true in 1911 and it's true now." - Col. Robert Coates commanding, U.S. Marine Corp Special Operations Command Detachment 1 (DET 1)

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by garrettwc
    1. After reading it I see that he dropped only the slide assembly(vs. the entire gun), which would mean that considerably less weight, and therefore less force was applied to the impact. (it was also dropped down a pipe which may have added friction/drag to the equation).
    Doesn't make any difference whatsoever. Acceleration due to gravity affects all falling bodies equally, unless the object is so large and un-dense that air resistance affects the terminal velocity. From a given height, a bare slide & barrel or a complete pistol will reach exactly the same velocity. Once the muzzle makes impact, the assembly stops and the only part left in motion is the firing pin -- until it either impacts the primer, or compresses the spring sufficiently to use up all its kinetic energy.
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside
    Last edited by Hawkmoon; 23rd November 2010 at 14:08.


  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkmoon
    Doesn't make any difference whatsoever.
    I beg to differ. Newton's Second Law of Motion states that:

    Force = Mass * Acceleration

    While the acceleration and resulting velocity are constant, the mass of the entire assembly nearly doubles and thus the amount of force applied upon impact would also nearly double. Correct?
    "The 1911 was the design, given by God to us through John M. Browning, that represents the epitome of what a killing tool needs to be. It was true in 1911 and it's true now." - Col. Robert Coates commanding, U.S. Marine Corp Special Operations Command Detachment 1 (DET 1)
    Last edited by garrettwc; 23rd November 2010 at 15:10.


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    Halito, all. First off, I haven't read the tests from the other sight. Bebe is experiencing computer difficulties and I am not about to muddle up her computer. But, garrett, while you are correct in stating that force is increased as you increase the mass or the velocity, in this case there is neither mass or velocity added to or taken away from the firing pin, which I would believe is the determining factor insomuch as it relates to the force applied to the pin itself. In other words, you could attach the slide to a tractor trailor assembly, drop it from 70 feet, and the results SHOULD be the same as if you dropped just the slide assembly or the complete pistola. If, on the other hand, the asphalt mentioned slows down the "acceleration" of the slide, then this would have the overall effect of increasing the final distance component for the firing pin to "accelerate" through; 2AS = Vfsq-Vosq. If this be the case, then it is possible that the asphalt test is flawed in relation to a 70 foot acceleration test. At any rate, Hawk is correct...but so are you, great mentor. Love the 1911, Indiana (have to go through there to visit Ishkaa anymore) and the forum.

    C.......

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    Quote Originally Posted by garrettwc
    I beg to differ. Newton's Second Law of Motion states that:

    Force = Mass * Acceleration

    While the acceleration and resulting velocity are constant, the mass of the entire assembly nearly doubles and thus the amount of force applied upon impact would also nearly double. Correct?
    The mass of the pistol stops when the muzzle hits the ground. It imparts NO force on the firing pin. The firing pin does NOT stop -- it continues downward until something causes its motion to stop. That would be either striking the primer, or the firing pin spring absorbing all the kinetic energy before the pin touches the primer.

    The weight (or mass) of the pistol "assembly" is irrelevant. The only parts that matter are the mass of the firing pin and the rate of the firing pin spring.
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside
    Last edited by Hawkmoon; 28th December 2015 at 06:44.


  9. #9
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    Very interesting...hmmm
    Question:
    What if there was a way to take a bare firing pin and drop it from said hight.....would it have the energy to fire a primer? I don't think so.
    I have to believe that the weight, either assembled gun or just the slide HAS to be the major factor here.
    Concrete vs asphalt....not so much.
    Beauty is skin deep but ugly goes right to the bone.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncviking
    I have to believe that the weight, either assembled gun or just the slide HAS to be the major factor here.
    Impossible unless you suspend at least two fundamental laws of Physics.

    Essentially, you are saying that if you are a passenger in a car and the car rams a HUGE concrete bridge abutment, your head will hit the dashboard harder if you're in a heavy car than if you're in an econo-box.
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside

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