Welcome to M1911.ORG
The M1911 Pistols Organization Forums Site


John needs your help
Please read this message.


Sponsors Panel
If you intend to buy something from the companies advertising above, or near the bottom of our pages, please use their banners in our sites. Whatever you buy from them, using those banners, gives us a small commission, which helps us keep these sites alive. You still pay the normal price, our commission comes from their profit, so you have nothing to lose, while we have something to gain. Your help is appreciated.
If you want to become a sponsor and see your banner in the above panel, click here to contact us.

Results 1 to 3 of 3

Thread: WE (Weitech) P14 Hi-CAPA

THREAD CLOSED
This is an old thread. You can't post a reply in it. It is left here for historical reasons.Why don't you create a new thread instead?
  1. #1
    Join Date
    21st September 2008
    Posts
    9,964
    Posts liked by others
    209

    WE (Weitech) P14 Hi-CAPA

    As some of you will know, I recently bought a Para P18.9. It was a long time coming, so I had plenty of time to think about what other goodies to get, to go with it.

    I already owned a ‘wide-body’ airsoft pistol, a TM Hi-Capa, which was lightly customized with a metal slide, a different grip (more similar to actual STI/SV grips), a fiber-optic front sight and a magwell. In other words, an airsoft version of an IPSC Limited pistol. It’s a nice thing to have, but it’s a long way from the looks and feel of my Para. I had looked around, and could not find an airsoft Para lookalike, apart from a nice offering by Western Arms (already reviewed by John), which was not available in an all-metal form.



    So, I was more than a little surprised when a member here posted a link to an airsoft dealer, listing a pistol like the one I eventually bought, above. I couldn’t believe it! How could I have missed the fact that an airsoft dead-ringer of my Para has been on sale for at least two years? Well, it was probably because of an erroneous assumption on my part. You see, I knew that Weitech (heretofore known as WE) made several 1911 airsofts, but I assumed that they simply mirrored the Tokio Marui line, being more affordable versions of pre-existing TM models. So, since TM doesn’t make any Para copies, I simply didn’t look for any WE offerings!

    Had I considered the origin and purpose of airsoft pistols, I might have found the pistol earlier. You see, while we think of airsoft pistols as training tools, this is NOT how they came into being. They originated in countries where citizens have no access to real guns. But, this is not to say that those who bought them didn’t know their guns. Buyers demanded attention to detail, and the manufacturers obliged. They reproduced the lines and curves of the 1911 pistol better than some makers of REAL pistols. If you think I’m exaggerating, have a look at this.



    The picture shows the triggerguard area of an airsoft M1911A1 pistol, made by Tokio Marui. The part shown is an aftermarket alloy frame, but I assure you that the details you see here (circled in red) are present in the original, too. Try browsing the picture threads of 1911 manufacturers, and check how many of them have these lines in their pistols. It will be a short list, mainly because some of these lines aren’t blue-printed in the M1911A1 drawings. This isn’t an isolated example. Markings found on M1911A1 replicas indicate that someone really did his homework on GI pistols (and not just those made by Colt). For a real treat, check John's reviews of WA's MEUSOC 'early' and 'late' replica versions, to see how well their subtle differences were reproduced.

    None of these details are functional. None of them would really affect the airsoft pistol’s suitability as a training tool, but there they are, because there was a demand for them. Those who can’t get the real thing wanted them, and got them. I think that this is really admirable, but what if you can get real 1911 pistols in your country? What if you want an airsoft only as a training tool? Would it be fair to say that in this case, the beautiful TM and WA guns are a bit... over-engineered? I’m inclined to say ‘no’, because I like attention to detail and more importantly, I really believe that if you’re going to be any good at using your tools, you’d better like them. Nevertheless, there seem to be a sizable market for simple, no-nonsense airsofts – and that’s where makers like Weitech come in.


    Top to bottom: WE P14, real Para P18.9, customized TM Hi-Capa.

    Since WE makes airsoft pistols that use Tokio Marui's operation, most parts are interchangeable, which is great news, since TM 1911s are the most upgradeable airsofts out there. Not everything interchanges, however. For one thing, the frame in TM pistols is a two-part design: an internal ‘chassis’ holds the mechanism, and the external frame is the visible part of the assembled pistol. The reason for this, is that most stock TM pistols have plastic frames and slides, while WE pistols are all-metal, so they have a one-piece frame, with a removable cover in the left-rear corner of the frame, to give access to some fire-control parts.

    To get my WE P14, I e-mailed Mike Cripps, a UK-based airsoft dealer, and asked if he’d heard of these. He quickly replied that he had already ordered several, and expected them within the week. The price, for an all-metal (barrel included) airsoft pistol, was unbelievable: 145 euros, delivered (shipping from the UK to Greece is quite expensive)! My TM cost more than that, with a plastic slide and barrel, WITHOUT shipping! In the US, this pistol retails at around $110.

    Eventually, my newest airsoft pistol arrived and I was in for a bit of a shock. Let me clarify this from the outset: as a training tool, this airsoft pistol is absolutely fine. It’s just as reliable as my TM Hi-Capa (that is, it works 100% of the time), its accuracy compares quite well with the TM, it fits in the same holster as my real P18.9, it feels the same in my hands and even its weight is more than substantial enough. However, comparing it with the TM pistol, it’s easy to see why the latter costs twice as much (after some customizing).



    Some of the details aren’t that important: instead of being dovetailed, the WE front sight is permanently fixed to the slide, molded as one piece. When pressed down further from the cocked position, the hammer in the TM pistol will depress the grip safety, just like John Moses Browning intended, to help de-cock the pistol. The (otherwise nice) Commander-style hammer in the WE pistol is smaller and doesn’t quite reach the grip safety… but I admit that in an airsoft, this is nit-picking.

    Some other differences between the two airsofts are more prominent. The thumb safety is a good example. Both the WE and TM airsofts have ambi safeties that look identical. The right-side paddle on the TM felt quite solid when it was new, becoming slightly looser over time. By contrast, the WE part was loose from the beginning, much worse than the TM after nearly a year and a half of daily manipulation. And then there’s the finish. The metal parts in the TM that aren’t shiny, are anodized black. By contrast, the whole WE pistol (barrel excluded) seems to have some sort of a ‘spray-on bake-on’ finish, which leaves a lot to be desired, for two reasons:

    a) it didn’t take my thumbnail more than a couple of days to start peeling it off from the thumb safety lever (check the picture below), and
    b) the darned thing is… grey! The lighting in the pictures you see doesn't show this well, but the pistol’s colour is grey, with a hint of blue in it.



    Anodizing a real pistol’s frame has to be done carefully, because it affects the surface hardness of the finished product. That’s one reason why some pistol makers (including Colt and Ruger) refuse to re-anodize aluminium-alloy frames. But in non-stress applications (like airsofts), anodizing is actually a fairly cheap way to finish aluminium. So, I suspect that the reason why my WE frame, slide and most small parts have a spray-on finish, is because the underlying metal is some form of ‘Anobtainium’, NOT aluminum-alloy, so it can’t be anodized. Another explanation that I found on-line, is that some cast Aluminium alloys just don't look good when anodized, due to impurities in the metal. Mmm...

    Internal parts are better made. The pistol was designed to be used with magazines that take CO2 canisters, rather than gas (it is sold either with a 'green gas mag, or a CO2 one). CO2 airsofts apparently work at higher pressures than Green Gas (a.k.a. propane with a bit of silicone), so, in theory, this airsoft should be able to take plenty of hard use (with propane) with nary a problem.



    There’s one odd mechanical difference, between this pistol and my TM: the magazine’s release valve, has a thinner ‘button’ than the two TM magazines I have for the Hi-Capa (in the above picture, a TM magazine is on the left, the WE one on the right). This has an interesting effect: if I thumb-cock the WE pistol, and press the trigger with the magazine in place, NO gas escapes the magazine! If I cycle the slide normally, the pistol fires as advertized. It took me some time to figure this out (I really thought I had a malfunctioning pistol for a while) and I have not been able to explain why it happens, but since the TM and WE magazines are otherwise identical (apart from their base pads, see below), I was able to make it happen in the TM too, using the WE magazine, so I have to assume that the design of the magazine’s valve is the culprit.



    It’s worth mentioning that when I contacted Mike to ask him if he knows anything about this, he immediately sent me another magazine valve, to keep as a spare, free of charge, even though there’s nothing wrong with the pistol or the magazine... to shoot the pistol, you cock the hammer when the slide is cycled – and the pistol and magazine work fine this way. As John has written on many occasions, Mike is a gentleman and stands behind anything that comes out of his shop.



    Shown above is something that's a bit of a pet-peeve for some airsoft shooters. As I wrote further up, WE uses a single frame, rather than TM's inner-outer frame setup. The problem with this, is that it means that part of the firing mechanism needs to be hidden under a cover plate - a bit like what you'd find on many double-action revolvers. In single-stack, 1911-style airsoft pistols, this means that there is a very prominent line on the frame, between the left grip panel and the grip safety (just under the thumb safety). However, like the real pistol, this widebody happens to have a notch for the grip panels' trigger bow covers, in precisely that spot! The two circled lines you see above, are the only evidence that the frame isn't one-piece, and they're invisible, unless you look for them. Nicely done.

    In the same picture, you can also see that the plunger makes NO contact with the slide stop. This means that with the slide locked back and the magazine removed, the slide stop doesn't move down to release the slide. NOT nicely done.

    So far, I’ve been comparing my WE pistol to my TM Hi-Capa 5.1. But to evaluate it as a training tool, I really ought to compare it to my real Para. Fortunately, it fares much better in this role. Yes, the slide serrations bear little resemblance to the real thing, but given the difference in the strength of the recoil spring, the feel of actually cocking the pistol was never going to be close.



    Gripping the pistol feels identical to the Para. Even the serrations on the front strap are there, although they’re a little finer than those on the real thing – no problem. The mainspring housing is plastic, straight and checkered, like the one in current Paras, but there’s a twist: the bottom of the part has an odd bevel, as shown below.



    As some STI widebody owners may have already guessed, this part looks like this because WE uses it in their version of TM's Hi-Capa. That's what my TM's MSH looks like, under the magwell...



    The front of the outer barrel, shown above, is threaded for an adaptor that you can buy separately, to fit a fake suppressor. Not my kind of thing, but it's there if anyone needs it. WE sells other 1911 models with such accessories, so I suppose they used it here because they already make it, like the MSH.

    The theme of random 1911 parts continues elsewhere, too. I already described the thumb safety, which is as wide as the TM Hi-Capa's, rather than what Para uses. The grip safety seems like a copy of the Ed Brown, complete with a memory ‘bump’ pad. If it bothers anyone, there are aftermarket parts that are different. The magazine release is extended and checkered, which is a nice touch.



    The trigger is not right, for a Para. There is currently at least one aftermarket parts' maker offering three-hole triggers for Para widebodies, though. For some reason, the trigger shoes on many TM and WE pistols are serrated horizontally, and this is the case here, too. Incidentally, the little 'WE' marking in the triggerguard is the only marking in the whole pistol - apart from the grips.



    The real gun has a full-length guide rod. But as you can see above, this airsoft doesn't, like the earlier Paras. Interestingly, the GI-style guide rod (not shown) seems to be steel, as it is one of the few parts on the gun that is attracted by a magnet!



    The grips on the WE take a little explaining. They feel exactly the same as real Para grips: the checkering is the same, the tops of the pyramids being just as sharp. But the logo on them seems to be a crude imitation of Colt’s pony. My guess is that this is because WE sells the same pistol with Colt markings on the slide:



    But, in pictures I found in US-based airsoft shops, the unmarked pistol is pictured with grips bearing a simple ‘WE’ logo. I don't mind, partly because neither logo is right, but mainly because another aspect of the grips is much less positive.

    The day after I received the gun, I removed the left-hand grip panel, along with the left-hand panel of my Para, to see if they’re interchangeable. They aren’t and the reason was a big surprise: the length of the gun’s grip frame is about 2mm longer in the airsoft, compared to the real thing. When I tried the real gun’s grips on the WE, the top screw hole lined up perfectly, along with the cut for the trigger bow, but the bottom screw hole is nowhere near where it needs to be. I don't think it's a mistake. My guess is that they wanted to use the same magazine as that of the Hi-Capa, which is an STI/SV lookalike. Taking a closer look, I also found that the grip is slightly thinner, too, but the difference is less than 1 mm, which explains why I couldn’t feel it when gripping the pistol.

    To say that I was disappointed by these dimensional discoveries, would be a gross understatement. Compared to the overzealous attention to detail found in TM and WA pistols that I outlined earlier, finding such a fundamental difference seemed unjustified. Strictly speaking, having a slightly longer grip doesn’t really affect the way one grips the pistol, unless the shooter places his/her support hand under the grip, ‘cupping’ the magazine pad. In that sense, I suppose that for training purposes, this isn't a deal breaker.


    So, in conclusion...

    If you’re the owner of a full-size ParaUSA/Para-Ordnance pistol, if you are looking for an airsoft pistol to practice with, in the comfort of your own home and you feel that the price difference between this and a Western Arms airsoft is best spent on ammo (for your real gun, obviously), then this Weitech product is just right for you – it will fit in your holster, and it really is heavy enough to feel substantial. If you don’t fancy adjustable sights, there was another version available, with a fixed rear sight, but I’m not sure if it’s still on offer.

    On the other hand, if you like Para pistols and you’re looking for a nice replica, to put on a display, this airsoft isn’t for you, because... it just isn't a replica. A ‘heavy’-plastic Western Arms Para will be a much better choice. And, having tried out John’s Western Arms Para Ordnance P14-45, I can tell you that it is definitely not too light to put to good use, either.

    Please understand, having bought this pistol with my own money, I do not feel ripped-off. But I finally understood why WE pistols are so much cheaper than TMs or WAs. They are priced exactly right, to tackle the practical purpose that they are intended for. However, when I was buying my WE pistol, I intended to sell my TM Hi-Capa, as this one would become my new practice tool. Well, replace the TM for practice it did, but looking at the two together, I just can’t bring myself to part with the TM.

    It’s just different.
    Too many people miss the silver lining because they're expecting gold.
    M. Setter


  2. #2
    Join Date
    2nd June 2004
    Location
    Terra
    Posts
    22,286
    Posts liked by others
    906
    Is this one still available? http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=7248
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside

  3. #3
    Join Date
    21st September 2008
    Posts
    9,964
    Posts liked by others
    209
    I don't think it is. Airsoft Extreme doesn't list it anymore, and haven't been able to find anyone else selling it online. The KJW brand is still around though, so you never know.
    Too many people miss the silver lining because they're expecting gold.
    M. Setter

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  



Sponsors Panel
If you intend to buy something from Brownells, please use their banners above. Whatever you buy from them, gives us a small commission, which helps us keep these sites alive. You still pay the normal price, our commission comes from their profit, so you have nothing to lose, while we have something to gain. Your help is appreciated.
If you want to become a sponsor and see your banner in the above panel, click here to contact us.

Non-gun-related supporters.
Thank you for visiting our supporters.