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Thread: BATF Procedure for re-assigning serial numbers

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  1. #1
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    BATF Procedure for re-assigning serial numbers

    I have just heard from a visitor who had a USGI pistol with a filed serial number.

    The member had contacted his local field office (the Firearms (Enforcement) section of the Dallas field office) and he was told that "they would send somebody to pick it up, send it to their lab to see if they could raise the old SN, if not, they would probably issue a new one. Said not to worry. So, this morning a nice young lady came to the house, reiterated the foregoing, gave me a receipt, picked up the frame and very apologetically said it might take a week or so, was that all right? She assured me again, 3 times, that they would very probably issue a new serial number if they couldn't raise the old one.".

    Next morning a young officer appeared at his house. Here is what he wrote to me:

    "The Special Agent who came to my house to pick up the weapon was a very pleasant younger lady. She was very knowledgeable about firearms and stated that my case was different from most of the obliterated serial number cases they normally deal with. First off, I was very forthright and upfront with them about it. Secondly, apparently most obliteration attempts are crudely done, usually on recently stolen weapons. Street weapons, in other words.

    So, maybe, honesty is the best policy after all...."

    I hope this helps other members who have similar pistols.
    John Caradimas SV1CEC
    The M1911 Pistols Organization
    http://www.m1911.org

  2. #2
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    1911 serial number

    I contacted the BATF on a similar issue and was told that if I couldn't "prove" ownership they couldn't help. What makes matters worse is being from Mass. I got the pistol from a lady in her sixty's who got it from her father Mass. requires a paper trail on the the pistol from her father to her to me and she can't sell a pistol with an incomplete serial number (Catch 22). I will probably trash the frame and work form there.

  3. #3
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    This thread is only a few days old, and seems to be along the lines of the process described in the first post - but in Texas...
    Too many people miss the silver lining because they're expecting gold.
    M. Setter

  4. #4
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    I can say from experience that not every ATF agent will treat this situation the same way.
    Recently a member contacted me about serial number restoration, and decided to what John described above, contacted ATF. In this instance ATF filed for confiscation of the firearm. I have heard of this happening many times in the past. I know this is a 2 edged sword, with the owner stuck in the middle.

    You have a family heirloom with a scratched of serial number, which is illegal to own. On the other side there is the ATF that SHOULD try to raise the number before making any assumptions, but its not guaranteed.

    What's a person to do. I hate to be political but...who can you trust?
    If it isn't durable, it isn't reliable.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by wichaka
    What's a person to do. I hate to be political but...who can you trust?
    I just stumbled across this thread months late...

    One option (which is not cheap) is to have an attorney contact the ATF for you and negotiate the surrender of the firearm for the raising/reassigning procedure. An attorney should be able to keep a client's identity secret should the ATF refuse to play ball (although this may vary somewhat state to state with different ethics rules), and should also be able to start quoting regulations and procedures as necessary to convince them to go along with it.

    For an heirloom, it may be worth spending the money.
    Last edited by RobL; 19th July 2010 at 11:23.


  6. #6
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    This isn't a political question, it is a practical question. It is well-known that different ATF offices and agents have widely differing attitudes. I would never approach the BATFE on something like this directly, I would always do it through an attorney. I don't think there would ever be any question about professional ethics. An attorney represents the client. Even the BATFE should recognize that an attorney is not going to "rat out" his/her client. The worst that should happen would be that the BATFE takes the gun. However, I think (note: I "THINK") that an attorney would be in a better position to argue that confiscation of a valuable weapon over a technicality that came to light only because the owner tried to do the right thing is unfair, arbitrary and capricious when the BATFE has an established procedure for handling such situations.
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside

  7. #7
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    To be clear, I don't think there's any question that an attorney could shield a client's identity should the client be willing to surrender the weapon regardless of whether there was any hope of seeing it again--so you can safely dispose of an altered gun that way without fear of prosecution for having possessed it in the first place.

    Whether the attorney could similarly shield the client should the ATF demand that the weapon be surrendered for destruction, but the client refused, is a stickier question, and one that might not come out well for the client, because then the client is engaged in an ongoing crime. I wouldn't venture an opinion on it without quite a bit of research.

  8. #8
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    If as Hawkmoon has posted is the procedure taken, and it seems like a good one, I would try to find an attorney that deals with or is well versed in the Federal Firearms Laws, and the BATFE rules and regulation.

    The National Shooting Spoerts Foundation might be some help here, or the NRA. The NSSF have some good data about liability insurance on their website.
    Ken
    "I like Colts and will die that way"
    "It seems to me that I have forgotten more than I remember"

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobL
    To be clear, I don't think there's any question that an attorney could shield a client's identity should the client be willing to surrender the weapon regardless of whether there was any hope of seeing it again--so you can safely dispose of an altered gun that way without fear of prosecution for having possessed it in the first place.

    Whether the attorney could similarly shield the client should the ATF demand that the weapon be surrendered for destruction, but the client refused, is a stickier question, and one that might not come out well for the client, because then the client is engaged in an ongoing crime. I wouldn't venture an opinion on it without quite a bit of research.
    If you have an even half-decent attorney, if the agent wants to play the confiscation card the attorney should be aware that the BATFE does have an established procedure to restore serial numbers or assign replacements, so he/she (the attorney) should immediately kick the ball up to the supervisor of the field office and ask why the agency is not following their own procedure. If they want to file for an order of confiscation, I would hope an attorney could go into the court, show the judge that the BATFE has a procedure for restoring or reassigning serial numbers, stipulate that his client was NOT the person who defaced the serial number and is only trying to do the right thing by bringing the gun into compliance in accordance with established BATFE procedure, and hope the judge isn't such a total anti-gunner that he would confiscate anyway. Ideally, if it should get that far, the judge should order the BATFE to follow their procedure.
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside

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