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Thread: Explanation of the operation of EGW Firing Pin Stop

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  1. #91
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    If you wanna feel the recoil really get tame, try the 16-pound spring. Force forward equals force backward.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1911Tuner
    If you wanna feel the recoil really get tame, try the 16-pound spring. Force forward equals force backward.
    Hello,

    This is encouraging for me considering I just ordered four 16 pound springs.............thank you.............

    Rgds
    Eric

  3. #93
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    If they're strandard 32 coil springs, and you stick'em in a Commander...be sure to trim to 24 coils and check for stacking.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1911Tuner
    If they're strandard 32 coil springs, and you stick'em in a Commander...be sure to trim to 24 coils and check for stacking.

    Hello and dang.......I thought I was the only one to use that trick ....will do....thanks again......

    Rgds
    Eric

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by egumpher
    I thought I was the only one to use that trick
    Nah. I've been doin' that with GM springs to use in Commanders since the 60s.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1911Tuner
    If you wanna feel the recoil really get tame, try the 16-pound spring. Force forward equals force backward.
    Thanks Tuner - that's the plan. Didn't have time today - just kind of snuck into the range on the way to see a new grand-baby.

    You mean like 18# of force springing forward pushes back at the rate of 18#? I actually think I understand that. Newton's Third Law - do I get at least a passing grade in physics now? I hope so since you have had to type your fingers to the bone to help me.
    "Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom." -- President John F. Kennedy

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by LJA
    You mean like 18# of force springing forward pushes back at the rate of 18#?

    Yep. To simplify Newton's 3rd law:

    In a closed system wherein there are two interracting objects and a common force...whatever the magnitude of the force is in one direction, the magnitude of that force will be equal in the opposite direction. Actually, there are always two objects and two forces, even though the forces originate from a single source.

    Using the "pound" rating for a spring is a little misleading, because it only gives one piece of information during one point in its function...and that only for a brief instant...most often at its minimum compressed length as installed. Another way...
    The spring provides a maximum of 16 pounds of resistance when compressed as far as it can be within this machine. Not at the point of the coils touching...but at its minimum compressed length as installed in the gun.

    The other, more pertinent information isn't given...that concerning the rate of the spring. The rate determines how fast the spring builds resistance or unleashes its stored energy...but people understand and readily accept "pounds." If the label on the spring were to state:

    "This spring provides X pounds/ounces of resistance per Y units of compression for a maximum loading of Z at length abc...the phones wouldn't stop ringing long enough for the manufacturer to make springs. Pounds, they understand.

    Here's a hypothetical for you to study on: Understand first that perfection only exists in the mind of God, and that there are no perfect dimensions.

    Imagine a double-end cannon, with a muzzle at each end, and the firing chamber located precisely in the geographic center of that barrel.

    The bore is perfectly round, concentric, and precisely equal diameter from one end to the other. The surface finish is also perfectly smooth and consistent over its length.

    Two cannon balls...also perfectly round, precisely the same diameter, and precisely of equal surface finish, and of precisely equal mass/weight.

    The balls are loaded in the barrel precisely equidistant from their respective muzzles, and the gun fired.

    The balls will accelerate at equal rates, and they will exit their respective muzzles at precisely the same instant...at perfectly equal but OPPOSITE velocities.

    They'll exit at the same speed. "Velocity" indicates direction...like "Vectored" indicates that the force has magnitude and direction.

    "Outside Force" is any force that exists outside of the closed system, and it suggests a resistance to motion on that system. Many things can comprise an outside force, but the two constants are friction and gravity. As long as the system operates on planet Earth, those are the two that you can't get around. They're always there...always lurking...and always working to bring any moving object to rest and back to a state of equilibrium.

    Now, to simplify Newton's 1st Law that states:

    An object in a constant state of motion will remain in that state UNLESS AND UNTIL an outside force compels it to change. An object at rest...in a state of equilibrium... will not move unless it's forced to move. An object in motion will not stop until it's forced to stop. Inertia and momentum.

    The bullet from a gun fired in the vacuum of outer space will continue to travel in a straight line at its exit velocity forever...unless it encounters another object or falls under the effects of gravity. Conservation of Momentum.

    Moreover...Motion is the result of unbalanced forces. That is...the compelling force must be great enough to overcome the object's inertia, and the outside force of friction before it can set the object in motion. If the forces are balanced...compelling and resistive forces are equal...the object is in a state of equilibrium, and will not move.

    Hope this helps.
    Last edited by 1911Tuner; 7th February 2010 at 08:15.


  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1911Tuner
    If you wanna feel the recoil really get tame, try the 16-pound spring. Force forward equals force backward.

    Tuner,

    Are you saying less recoil with heavier springs???? And, less 'dip' going back into battery with lighter springs??? And 14.0lb x 23.0lb is optimum overall for a GM????
    Last edited by 10851Man; 8th February 2010 at 11:56.


  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10851Man
    Tuner,

    Are you saying less recoil with heavier springs???? And, less 'dip' going back into battery with lighter springs??? And 14.0lb x 23.0lb is optimum overall for a GM????
    Robert...not Tuner....but, yes less dip going back into battery with lighter recoil spring(slide doesn't slam home as hard causing muzzle to dip).
    Yes...14#x23# is optimum WITH small radius FPS.
    JIM

  10. #100
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    Thanks Tuner - and yes that helps a lot. I dig it when your mind catches on fire and you write your Physics 101 explanations and examples - and in a way where I understand the concept.

    It's funny - I read a lot of older posts that you put up (particularly in the 2006 53 page thread on the small radius FPS) - and you mentioned "force forward = force backwards" more than once.

    It was not until my awareness got stretched enough this go-round (and with your first three posts in the "More Evidence" thread) that I actually comprehended that a heavier spring produced greater recoil. I had always thought the opposite.

    And now, with your clarification of spring rate over time, I understand that most of the backwards force (equal and opposite reaction) occurs during the early part of the "un-coiling" of the spring, followed by the slide slamming home, which transmits another force - to which there must be an equal and opposite reaction (muzzle dip) as their is when the slide hits the frame abutment in recoil (muzzle flip). I think both of these forces must be vectored in some way to produce upward and downward motion - is that right?

    This is fun Tuner - I dig it.

    George
    "Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom." -- President John F. Kennedy
    Last edited by LJA; 8th February 2010 at 15:43. Reason: Added Text


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