Bullseye or "Action" what's more practical?

[Bluffton45]

Shadowcatcher,
Kinda like my comment "just fun"!! Nothin wrong w/ that!
Ron

[Shadow Catcher]

Shadowcatcher,
Kinda like my comment "just fun"!! Nothin wrong w/ that!
Ron

I'm with ya! Keep it fun, keep it coming!

Ride safe -
SC

[wjkuleck]

When I was a member of my unit's shooting team in the Army, during Vietnam, we shot bullseye. Today, 40 years later, I carry a handgun for personal defense. The local, informal IDPA-style events I enter are entered because it is a form of practice that's much more similar to the way the weapon would be deployed in real life. Bullseye does not invlove drawing and presenting from a holster; rapid magazine changes; moving from one place to another to engage multiple targets; shooting from behind concealment (I hesitate to dignify an empty cardboard barrel as "cover"). Bullseye competition is good discipline for accurate shooting, but the degree of accuracy required is far greater than what's necessary for real life use of a handgun in self-defense, and does not include any of the above-mentioned "practical" aspects.

Mike Shovel once told me, "You can shoot faster, you don't have to be so accurate!"

Regards,

walt

[TonyW]

Being an old bullseye type, I would definitely say that bullseye training is a definite hindrance to speed. Granted that any shooting will make one more proficient - but proficiency in action shooting may give one the second or two that saves your life. When I have shot with young LEOs both with pistol and shotgun, I am amazed at their quick reflexes. Unfortunately, studies have shown that a lot of the perps out there are very proficient also. There isn't much action shooting available convenient to where I live, so any practice I do is solo with a timer. In the unlikely event I ever have to use a gun, my only hope is that the bad guy misses (or hits a non-fatal area) with his first shot and my shot with a 45 a half second later ends the confrontation! I guess the other thing I have in my favor is that perps would not suspect an old guy like me to be armed and to be a retired military type who has been around guns for 50+ years!

[Juliet Delta]

FWIW, I think both are highly relevant.

I think a shooter should be capable of doing either, on demand.

Amongst some military units which actually use their pistols in gunfights, they continually shoot a BE drill and use it as their benchmark to rank themselves amongst their peers.

However, there is also a LOT of time spent engaging realistic targets from realistic positions.

A good training program should work both the timed/ high stress shooting, and also continue to keep your accuracy skills as sharp as possible.

Of the different trainers providing instruction for defensive firearms technique, pretty much all have their own "standards" which evaluate both speed and accuracy. A good example of this are the Hackathorn Standards, as seen here:
http://www.firearmstrainingandtactic...horn-Standards

[FM12]

Right now, I'm apparently too sorry to do either one. Love both though. Trigger time=Good, either way.

[Bluffton45]

FWIW, I think both are highly relevant.

I think a shooter should be capable of doing either, on demand.

Amongst some military units which actually use their pistols in gunfights, they continually shoot a BE drill and use it as their benchmark to rank themselves amongst their peers.

However, there is also a LOT of time spent engaging realistic targets from realistic positions.

A good training program should work both the timed/ high stress shooting, and also continue to keep your accuracy skills as sharp as possible.

Of the different trainers providing instruction for defensive firearms technique, pretty much all have their own "standards" which evaluate both speed and accuracy. A good example of this are the Hackathorn Standards, as seen here:
http://www.firearmstrainingandtactic...horn-Standards

It's interesting to hear what the pro's do. Shooter's would be well advised to consider this info rather than being wedded to any particular game if training is the goal.

Ron

[Juliet Delta]

It's interesting to hear what the pro's do. Shooter's would be well advised to consider this info rather than being wedded to any particular game if training is the goal.

Ron

Ken Hackathorn gave us a few benchmark drills to run, which require a shot timer, but are fairly realistic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJhvhi7_-C0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMXIvcDorlc

Those are some pretty good evaluations of where one is at.

[Juliet Delta]

Here is a link to the bulls eye drill I mentioned earlier... I didn't know it was "open source" until today, when I found it on Kyle Defoor's blog.

http://www.kyledefoor.com/2010/01/70...aggregate.html

Enjoy!

[lawboy]

I don't shoot IDPA, but a loong time ago I was a cop. We qualified on a "combat" course that was very similar to the IDPA course. That was back in the mid '80s.

I currently shoot in a bullseye league as well as occaisionally in a full single day 2700 match. I also shoot falling plates which is fast- but we don't move.

I have found that BE has helped a LOT with my trigger pull, grip and sighting. It carrys over to the plates- I just do it quicker. Shooting plates helped my timed and rapid fire in BE. But boy having 10 seconds to shoot 5 rounds seems like a long time. I have actually reloaded a mag after shooting a timed stage before the time ran out. I shot my first clean in that match too.
We have a saying in my plate matches. You can't miss fast enough to win. A fast miss is a miss. All it takes to shoot quickly is practice- and a red dot scope. I use red dots in both types of matches. My eyes started to get old- not me, just my eyes. I went from a AAA shooter in plates to master and gained 100 points across the board in BE.

My advice? Shoot in as many different disciplines as you can. They will all have something that helps in another style.

Jim

Very well stated.
I shoot BE and IDPA. The fundamentals taught in BE are the foundation of all pistol shooting disciplines. I see many people at IDPA matches who do not even know what those fundamentals are. They are fast. They can present you a pistol from the holster just as smooth and pretty as you might ever need to see! They can transition from one target to the next with such style and grace as to leave your mouth agape. They can reload the gun before the spent magazine hits the ground and will sling shot that slide into place while you stand in awe. But what really amazes me, is whey they talk about an 8-inch bullseye at 20 yards like it is in the next area code! Talk about how that is a loooooooooooog shot for a pistol. Of course, it is not a long shot. It is a short shot at a HUGE target. They just don't know how to hit it or won't take the time to do so. The most fundamental skill in shooting any gun is to hit what you aim at. When a gun is pointed at something and a bullet launched, especially in an urban environment, you have a moral and legal responsibility regarding what that bullet touches. The fundamentals taught in BE are paramount.