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Thread: Step-by-step tear down and reassembly of P.O. LDA pistols

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  1. #11
    Join Date
    5th June 2004
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    Smile Wash your ears....

    Well, that's one of the things mom used to say....

    I finally scoped out the "ears" thing.... The folks at "Entreprise" sell wide-bodied 1911 frames and grips, and I noticed that their grips also have the ears.

    I asked.... They answer their e-mail. I'd buy something from them but their web site's "order" thingie is broken....

    If you look at a wide body 1911 with a standard trigger system, the trigger bow has to go AROUND the magazine, and to save a ton of metal, Entreprise (that's not a typo) cuts a good piece of steel out of the rear of the grip frame to accomodate the bow.

    The ears cover the part of the cutout that the grips don't....

    The LDA, doesn't need or have that cutout, so the ears have no place to go. Removing them is fine / necessary. What made some of the confusion is that the Tac-Four and the P1345 can use the same grips, but the P1345 is NOT an LDA, so it needs (and has) the cutouts.

    (Same basic grip frame.)
    Stu.
    (Why write a quick note when you can write a novel?)
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒE
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  2. #12
    Join Date
    12th July 2004
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    LDA disass'ly

    Okay then....all this pin punching, and it looks like someone's had some pretty good results. I'm still either paranoid or a novice (or both), so I'm going to axe a question...
    To r/r the mainspring housing on my C7.45 LDA (Companion), do i have to do everything step by step leading up to the mainspring housing removal, or can I just drift out that pin and pull the housing? The gun takes a regular Officer's size housing, and per Para can be swapped in.

    If I can remove the housing only, I think I'm up for it. Don't want to start dismantling the safeties and such. Way too many lever thingies in a pistol receiver for my tastes. Once I get the housing off (assuming that's the way to go), then what? How does one pull the cap, the spring, and the retainer without the legendary launchings? Also...are the pics on LDA takedown instructions gone now or is my browser hiccuping.

    Done for now....
    peace

  3. #13
    Join Date
    5th June 2004
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    Question The pics are gone....

    I just looked. I don't see 'em either when accessed from the forum's "main" page. Trying to link to John's page directly from the "Para Stripdown" thread here in the forums gets me a 404.

    El Commandante probably had too much happy juice last weekend....

    Found 'em at: John's Para Stripdown Pages . (Added 11/15/2005.)

    As to the rest, while I can't speak for the C7.45, here's the drill for the Tac-Four, which is nominally a P1345 but in LDA. And green....

    Essentially, just decock the thing and pop the mainspring housing retainer pin out. The housing should drop out of the bottom of the frame.... If you don't de-cock it (leave the slide on right now), the pin's going to be harder to get out, and the housing will fly out of the frame. Harmless, but....

    HOWEVER.... Be very careful to not let the sear spring move. It's a little non-1911 in the first place, and has a tiny coil spring sitting on a pin that has to stay with a matching pin elsewhere. If that stuff comes loose, you'll need to pull the safety lever and pop out the beavertail in order to replace the sear spring and it's parts. (Beware of the upper left tine on that spring, too - it's not what you'd expect, but pretty obvious.) [03/02/2006 Use a big rubber band to hold the grip safety "in". That'll hold the sear spring in place.]

    To be honest, I have no idea how I got the safety lever back in.... Just played with it. If you've removed the slide by now (I think I did), the thing is cocked, which is the way you're supposed to work with a 1911's safety.... Not a problem, except that when you try to replace the mainspring housing, you'll need to fight the mainspring. I found it simplest to very carefully apply some pressure to the hammer pin (the one that engages the mainspring) with the mainspring, and de-cock it (fire it). At that point, the mainspring pressure is almost zero when replacing the housing, and the whole thing should just go together.

    (If you've popped the beavertail, though, you have to put it back in it's normal position before putting back the mainspring housing.)

    [Edit, 03/02/2006]

    I figured out the thumb safety.... There are a couple of flat things in the hole. The one closest to you has to be pressed (use a small screwdriver) towards the trigger area before you try to stuff the safety back into the frame. The others want to go in the other direction. The first one feels like it should go to the right, but that's wrong....

    I didn't try removing the mainspring from it's housing. That's where I decided that getting a local gunsmith involved was a better idea, since between the two of use we could easily swap the housing, and hopefully he had some idea of how to get the spring swapped. The problem is that the mainspring is under some compression when within the housing, and you have to drive a little pin out to pop it clear. At that point you lose a spring and a couple little parts if you're not sure....

    A large white work surface (a bedsheet) and a vise to hold the housing probably would be a good idea. Anybody who's done a 1911 should be able to handle that part - I don't see any difference.

    (11/15/2005)
    Having the opportunity to swap MSH's in a Kimber that uses a similar sized housing got me cranked up enough to try this myself. Can't speak for the full-sized MSH, but the little "Officer's" sized housing on the P13/Tac-Four (or the Kimber), is a piece of cake. Take a small punch and drift the little bitty spring retaining pin out of the housing about halfway. Then use a larger punch or other tool to depress the cup (the top part of the spring assembly) enough to get the little pin to just fall out (onto the floor if you're not lucky). The cup, the spring, and the little bottom plunger will come out as you release pressure on the cup. (I'd expected considerable spring pressure, but that was from trying to get a GM mainspring into an "Officer's" housing. .)

    To re-assemble, put the spring components together and into the housing. Then press gently with a punch until you can drop the little pin in a ways and hold things. If you're lucky, the pin will drop all the way. Otherwise, pressing on the cup a bit and using a small punch to finish the job will do it. DO note that the pin we're talking about has a flat head, and won't go in the wrong way.... Easily....
    (end of 11/15 edit)

    Finally, be very careful about the Brownells part number. I went through three of them before getting the right one for my Tac-Four. First try was for the Colt Officer's Model. Perfect size, but it didn't fit anyway - the little rails on the side didn't match. Then one for the P14 that's too long. The third one is for the P1345, and fits. I don't think Brownells knows - you may need to ask Para.

    The good news is that you don't have to take apart the hammer and trigger stuff.... It's not that complicated.... My gunsmith, when warned about the little bits, swapped the housing for me, including the spring, in about five minutes. It probably would have taken longer if he'd let me help .
    Stu.
    (Why write a quick note when you can write a novel?)
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒE
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    Last edited by SMMAssociates; 2nd April 2006 at 12:00. Reason: Yet another redaction....


  4. #14
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    Is there a DVD on how to break down the LDA guns ? If so where can I get one ?

  5. #15
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    Smile

    Kidcoltoutlaw:

    I don't think one exists.

    However, I did find the link to the stripping instructions here on this board:

    John's Para Stripdown Page

    Please read my last post (just above), edited today, for a little more info.

    The slide, btw, strips exactly like any Colt Series 80 (with firing pin block) slide. The mainspring housing is also identical in internal design and removal and replacement, but won't necessarily fit Colt frames.

    If you've done a few 1911's, and have a good "feel" for the interaction of all those little bitty parts, other than the "fiddle with it until it fits" aspects, it shouldn't be too hard to follow John's instructions. I've so far avoided trying it. (I have stripped down a 1911, but comparatively speaking, the frame's less complicated than a slide with a Series 80 firing pin safety.)

    One more caveat regarding swapping MSH's - if you do have to remove the sear spring, there's a tiny coil spring on the right hand tine that mates with a little pointy thing inside. I think Ted's other alternative involved the little guy who lives in the fridge and turns the lights on and off, so we should be happy, but....

    If all else fails, there are some nice people in TN who will be happy to accept your bag of parts and turn them back into a gun. However it could get expensive. They will do terrible things with it, too, like taking it out back and test-firing it. (I think that's adultery. ) You might want to consider putting the parts in a bag and shaking them up until something goes together, but I have my doubts. I tell people I built my computer that way, but so far nobody's believed me.

    Regards,
    Stu.
    (Why write a quick note when you can write a novel?)
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒE
    יזכר לא עד פעם

  6. #16
    Join Date
    2nd April 2006
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    S&A Mag Well

    I just recieved an S&A mag well for my CCW from Brownnels. Since the CCW is a single stack pistol I ordered the one for the Colt Officers Model and the main spring housing appears to be a tad long at the top end. It interferes with the operation of the grip safety (rubs).

    Did I order the wrong part or does it require fitting?

    Any help or comments would be appreciated.

    Thanks
    Chris

  7. #17
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    Smile

    Chris:

    I swapped an MSH in my Tac-Four and went 'round and 'round....

    I think you need to order a Para-specific part.

    But, if you can see the fitting problems (since the thing more or less fits) and don't mind a little work with a file, you might want to give that a try.

    First step, though, might be to ask Brownells if they catalog a Para-specific part for that gun.

    (I had very poor luck with their help desk via e-mail. I finally had to get a part number from Jay at Para's TN facility. However Brownell's catalog has gotten a little thicker with regard to Para parts since then.)

    You might want to ask Para, too....

    "Colt" parts should fit the single-stackers, but it's always better to pick the one marked "For Para" when possible.

    Regards,
    Stu.
    (Why write a quick note when you can write a novel?)
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒE
    יזכר לא עד פעם

  8. #18
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    2nd April 2006
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    Stu,
    Thanks for the suggestions. I usually talk with Joel in TN. I may e-mail him to see if he has any ideas. May try S&A to see if they have Para specific part.

    Chris

  9. #19
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    1st June 2004
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    There is nothing proprietary about our MSH's. If the one you have is very long, it is most likely the gov't length one, but if it is merely .005" long, or something like that, it simply needs to be fitted.


    Cheers,

    George

  10. #20
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    2nd April 2006
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    Thanks George.
    Nice to see an Industry Rep here. I think it may only be .005" too long. I am bringing the pistol to a smith to have the well fitted. Also during the replacement, I removed the grip safety to make it easier to get out the old MSH and make sure the MS strut fit the spring correctly. I think it may be that I am not able to get the grip safety & Safety back in correctly (having problems with the old MSH re-installed). The smith said he could get it back together for me.

    Best Regards
    Chris

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