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Thread: Differences of series 70 & 80!

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  1. #11
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    will u pls help on this.. i saw a colt gold cup mark 4 series 80 and colt officer mark 4 series 80 with out firing pin block and plunger in the slide. Is there a series 80 design that does not have a firing pin block and plunger in the slide w/c is characteristic of pre-70 or series 70?tnx in advance

  2. #12
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    What about the frames? Did they have the slot cut for the Series 80 mechanism?

    Or maybe they were some of those pistols that the PI ... underground industry makes from home-made parts?
    John Caradimas SV1CEC
    The M1911 Pistols Organization
    http://www.m1911.org

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by John
    Or maybe they were some of those pistols that the PI ... underground industry makes from home-made parts?
    That would be my guess too John, it's not a Series 80 without the FPS.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." - Jeff Cooper

  4. #14
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    I you want to know if the 1911 you are looking at has a firing pin block safety pull back the slide, turn it upside down and look for a small plunger on the left side of the slide. Below is a quicky picture of a Colt with the Series 80 system on the left. A Kimber in the middle, which sort of has a half round plunger and of course has a Swartz derived safety based off the grip safety, not the trigger, and an older S&W on the right which also has the firing pin block based off the grip safety.



    I understand the confusion with new 1911 users. Once they start reading they find out a lot of makers have elected to use a light Titanium firing pin. Examples are most the high end manufacturers, Ruger with their new SR1911, and Imbel/SA, plus the recent Colts like the new Series 70 and Colt/Talo Wiley Clapp pistols. When they read further they find S&W dropped a firing pin block in their new E Series, again going with a Titanium firing pin an heavy spring.

    I do not know of any extensive tests comparing the various firing pin blocks to a Titanium firing ping and stronger firing pin spring.

    What I do know is Colt, Kimber, and S&W can produce a 1911 with a very nice trigger with the firing pin block safety. I would look more at the features of the pistol and other factors and not spend a huge amount of time worrying about the firing pin block safety.
    NRA Life Member

  5. #15
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    Dakota, with your permission, I saved the image and treated it a little, so that the firing pin safety plungers show up a little better.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    John Caradimas SV1CEC
    The M1911 Pistols Organization
    http://www.m1911.org
    Last edited by John; 16th December 2013 at 14:21.


  6. #16
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    No problem John, although I should have taken a bit more time and done a bit better job.

    Below are the slides from (left to right) a Series 70 Colt, a Series 80 Colt, A Kimber Series II, and an early S&W 1911.




    Now if we look at the top of the frames in the same order. Yup, nothing on the 70, the little lever on the Series 80 and a pin on the Kimber. Then a little lever on the S&W. Hope this helps guys.

    NRA Life Member
    Last edited by dakota1911; 18th December 2013 at 08:49. Reason: Restore link to second picture.


  7. #17
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    "Series 70" is a specific short-lived model commonly used by folks to mean "pre-Series 80" or "pre-firing pin interlock." Common enough that even Colt is using the designation in this manner it seems.

    The Series 70 -- the "real" Series 70 -- had a collet barrel bushing (right) intended to increase accuracy and, perhaps, a couple of incidental differences from previous models. The model was a failure and quickly discontinued.



    My 1918 M1911 or 1967 Commander are not "series 70." Or series 80!

    -- Chuck

  8. #18
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    The term "Swartz" was mentioned in passing.
    In the 1930s Colt tooled up to make Government Models with a firing pin block in the slide and frame linkage to clear it when the grip safety was depressed. This is the Swartz safety. It was not in the 1911A1 specifications, so when Colt went to wartime production, it was discontinued and was not reintroduced after the war. You can find early WW II military pistols with the cuts, but no small parts, as Colt was diverting commercial guns and parts on hand to Army contracts.

    Kimber Series II pistols have a firing pin block system very similar to the Swartz. The Smith & Wesson firing pin block is also actuated off the grip safety but the linkage is different.

  9. #19
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    Para Ordnance licenses the Series 80 linkage from Colt. I think Kimber tried to but didn't want to pay the royalties so they used the earlier Swartz design for which the patents had long expired. Back when I owned a couple of Kimbers there was an issue with the Swartz system not disengaging due to grip pressure. No problems with the Series 80 system.

    Modern pistols seem to feature an interlock of some type which requires the trigger to be fully to the rear before the firing pin can move. Claims of increased trigger weight are true. They're also inconsequential for other than highly specialized match pistols -- the ones used in real matches, not plinking with my buddies and our "match grade" pistols.

    The Series 80 linkage and plunger are removable and a filler plate for the frame is about $4. Or it can be bypassed with the simple addition of a "Series 70" or USGI M1911 steel firing pin which keeps the plunger up all the time. (Works for the Kimber interlock too.)

    -- Chuck

  10. #20
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    Colt's Series 80


    S&W
    The S&W firing pin block is not a Swartz Firing Pin Block, the ONLY thing it has in common with the Swartz system is that it’s actuated by depressing the grip safety, that’s it. In reality, it has more in common with Colt’s Series 80 system (part 7 in the following schematic). As you will notice, it’s nothing like the Swartz schematic, that's illustrated at the end this post.


    Part #7 highlighted


    Kimber, is only loosely based on the Swartz system


    The Swartz system

    The Swartz firing pin block was designed by Colt engineer William L. Swartz (not "Schwartz" as is so frequently repeated on the internet). The first Government Model built with his firing pin safety was assembled on 12 Oct. 1937, intended to prevent the firing pin from moving forward under inertia, as in being dropped etc. It is deactivated by a plunger in the frame when the grip safety is depressed
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." - Jeff Cooper

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