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Thread: Hybrid Magazines

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  1. #1
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    Hybrid Magazines

    In light of all the confusion as to the new magazine design...and in an attempt to clear up what seems to be a basic misunderstandings...for those who didn't get in on the early discussions...

    I coined the term "Hybrid" to describe the feed lip geometry. It mates the early/abrupt timed release of the wadcutter magazine with the late, gradual release of the original "Hardball Only" magazine by making the timing of the release a little later and less abrupt, and it works very well with a wide variety of bullet shapes and cartridge overall lengths in a large percentage of the guns that haven't been hand-tuned by a pistolsmith.

    The "Hybrid" feed lip design is NOT a new design, and it's not under ongoing development. It's a proven design, and has been for many years. It predates the wadcutter design that has become the standard, aside from the ones that were homemade by reforming the feed lips. Up until recently, it's been used on Colt contract 7-round magazines ONLY. It's a Colt design, and the vendors who make it for Colt use those specifications. Norinco copied the design, and the OEM magazines included with their pistols are 7-round magazines with the hybrid lip geometry. They work very well once the springs have been upgraded.

    The "wadcutter" magazines were designed and intended for use with target semi-wadcutters...usually 200 grain bullets of the Hensley & Gibbs #68 design, or something similar...loaded to 700-750 fps. Using those criteria, and under those condotions, the magazines work very well. They also work well with bullets loaded to less than 1.210 inch overall cartridge length...which doesn't work well with full-tapered hardball magazines, and which work a little more reliably with even the excellent "Hybrid" design.


    Check-Mate has developed a follower that is compatible with 8 rounds in a flush-fit magazine tube, and it shows a lot of promise. PROMISE...Not guarantee. The magazines are still in the development stage, and the bugs are being addressed as they show up. This is a normal progression with a new design, and to be expected in most instances. CMI can't afford to buy 10,000 different pistols and the ammunition required, and pay the salary of the people required to do the test-firing. Based on what I've seen so far, with the limited number of pistols that I've tried them in...I have every confidence that these bugs will be worked out.

    Meanwhile, they rely on the test market for feedback. That would be us. They've replaced defective magazines...no questions asked...even though the same magazine may have worked perfectly in another identical pistol. They are trying to make their product as good as it can possibly be...but expecting that every single magazine produced will work perfectly in every single pistol that it's locked into is asking a lot...but they're trying to up the odds of that ideal by adjusting their production machinery. That's no small task.

    CMI offers the 8-round magazines with either the wadcutter or the hybrid lip geometry. If your game is played with target wadcutters, the wadcutter magazines are the better choice for you. If you want the advantages of the hybrid design for full-power ammo, and you must have 8 rounds...then the 8-rounder with the hybrid lips is well worth investigating as long as you understand that they're still in the developmental stage. If you're okay with 7 rounds, then your magazines are ready when you are. If your pistol won't feed and function with the 7-round hybrid magazines....it's likely time for a trip to the smith.

    Again...This is not a guarantee. This is a promise of a much greater chance of reliable function in any given pistol and nothing more. In many cases, they've corrected feed problems that defied all reasonable efforts, short of expensive frame rework. That makes it at least worth a try, and it's a no-lose proposition. If you wind up having to send the gun away to be repaired, you still have a very good magazine when you get it back.

    Finally...I have no vested interest in Check-Mate Industries. Zero. Zip. Nada. If the company folded up tomorrow, I wouldn't feel a thing, financially. The only pain that I would feel would be that I wouldn't be able to order 7-round hybrid-lip magazines with good springs direct from the manufacturer any more. I'd have to pay two prices for the same magazine just because it has a rampant horse on the baseplate...unless I get lucky and catch Metalform with a few left from a contract overrun...and even then, I may have to order Wolff springs for them.


    Mods...Fer God's sake...stick this for a month! I'm plumb wore out.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1911Tuner
    Mods...Fer God's sake...stick this for a month! I'm plumb wore out.
    Your wish is my command, Sire.

    Consider it done stuck.
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside

  3. #3
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    CM Mags

    Thks for the explanation. After reading at least a hundred posts on the subject, I bowed to your wisdom and put my order in for a batch. I, like many others I'm sure never realized how something so seemingly minor can be so critical.
    Another example of the genius behind the design.
    Is there a source for just the springs that the CM Mags are assembled with for my Colt Mags, or are the Wolff HD springs just as good and should I use the factory followers or replace them as well?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by ram350002
    Is there a source for just the springs that the CM Mags are assembled with for my Colt Mags, or are the Wolff HD springs just as good and should I use the factory followers or replace them as well
    For the 7-round CMI magazines, Wolff 11-pound springs are a direct replacement. Be absolutely SURE to order Wolff 11-pound/7-round springs. The 5% Extra Power springs are replacements for 8-round magazines with the Devel/Shooting Star followers, and they don't work well with standard 7-round followers. For those who have Shooting Star magazines, the Wolff 5% Extra Power 8-round spring will duplicate the performance of the McCormick Power Mag.

    Unless CMI has contracted with Wolff to produce springs for their 8-round magazine equipped with the "Bull Nose" follower, you'll have to go to Check Mate. The springs are proprietary.

  5. #5
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    CMI Mags

    And the OEM Colt followers are good to go after installing the Wolff 11lb Mag Springs?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ram350002
    And the OEM Colt followers are good to go after installing the Wolff 11lb Mag Springs?
    The oem colt followers are CMI and are good to go out of the box.
    "A fully loaded pistol is useless to the man who has an empty magazine between the ears."- Louis Awerbuck

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustinTime
    The oem colt followers are CMI and are good to go out of the box.

    As long as they're 7-round Colt magazines. 8-round Colt magazines are nothing more than McCormick Shooting Stars with a nice finish and a horse. If the Colt magazines are fresh, and have a "C" stamped on the bottom...they have good springs.

    If the're stainless, with an "M" on the bottom...they very likely already have the Wolff 11-pound spring in them. The spring is a Metalform option on stainless magazines, unless the customer specified otherwise. Colt normally opted for the Wolff spring.

    Another tip:

    The 6-round Colt Officer's Model/Defender magazines have the same spring and follower as the standard-length 7-round magazines...and all that I've seen also have the hybrid feed lip design...except for the one that I ordered from Brownells last year. It's a Metalform that has the wadcutter lips and their proprietary spring. Repeat: The 6-round OM magazine. The ones that hold 7 rounds are short Shooting Stars with the Devel-type followers and junk springs. That means that the 6-round Officer's Model magazines will accept the Wolff 11-pound spring as an upgrade.
    Last edited by 1911Tuner; 2nd February 2008 at 06:16.


  8. #8
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    hey tuner,

    I have tried the 8 rounders and to tell you the truth, they are not too bad!!! i

    I know, I know, its a shock seeing as to how I am "old school" and for the most part have no use to 8 round mags what-so-ever, but figure it never hurts to try out something new.

    As for the 8 rounder I have used, not a problem from it at all!!! I did get to shoot one of the early models of the 8 rounds and did notice it had have a noticeably weaker spring then the ones that they offer now. As for my * rounder it as become my primary range mag.

    oh, I also have one of the 8 rounders I bought being passed around at the local gun shop. I told the guys if they want to try it out all they have to do is let me know what type of gun they shot, what type of ammo they used, How much ammo they used, and if there were functioning problems if any . From what I hear there as been a handful that have tried it out and so far not one problem as of yet(knock on wood).

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by nc-gun-guy
    As for the 8 rounder I have used, not a problem from it at all!!!
    That's been my experience with the half-dozen test examples that I've used and passed around for evaluation. A couple guys remarked that they were tough to seat with a full compliment of ammunition and the slide in battery...but that wasn't present in all pistols. That's a matter of tolerance stacking in the related areas. It does require more effort than a similar 7-rounder...but that's mainly a matter of fine adjustment on the follower skirt length and spring stack height.

    The thing that everybody should keep in mind is that the design is still in the initial development stages. Meanwhile, take advantage of CMI's guarantee and send any problem magazines back, along with a detailed description of the issue. A note to the effect: "This magazine don't work good in my gun" tells the engineers exactly nothing, and they don't have a clue where to start to correct the flaws in the design.
    Last edited by 1911Tuner; 3rd February 2008 at 06:33.


  10. #10
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    1911Tuner - Just wondering if you have thoughts on the partial taper of the feed lips on the SA mags that Candiru noted in his excellent analysis of 1911 magazines. According to his report and my observations, the SA mags have a slight taper to the feed lips that splits the difference between wadcutter mags and the hybrid feed lips. Candiru noted the slight taper, but didn't really analysis the effect on feeding.

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