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Thread: Who has carried a 1911 in uniform?

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  1. #21
    Join Date
    20th December 2005
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    When I first reported to my unit in Viet Nam in 66, I was given the choice of carrying a pistol, or not. I took the .45 in addition to an M-16

    A month later after carrying the pistol, three mags, holster, mag pouch and cleaning kit, I begged the first Sgt to send it back to the rear and take it off my weapons card.

    I replaced the load with a couple of extra mags and an extra grenade,and felt much more secure. The pistol is totally useless for an infantryman in in combat. The .45 that I had was a piece of garbage, it rattled when shook, had no finish left and was very inaccurate. After riding in a wet holster for the day and night, it took half an hour to clean the piece of junk. Trying to survive in in the jungle, you don't really have an extra daily half an hour to waste cleaning a weapon the will not serve you in any practical way.

    The pistol, especially the 1911, is a fine toy to shoot, and great for old guys to fondle and play with, but it is an extravagant waste of weight for a grunt.

    I can't ever remember any of my buddies getting killed or wounded by an enemy withing pistol range, making it useless as a practical weapon. Most of our casualties came from expedient mines and indirect fire, certainly nothing you can defend against with a pistol.

    A backup? In a rifle squad, a more effective backup is the other nine grunts carrying M-16s.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    9th February 2007
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    Texas
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaysouth
    When I first reported to my unit in Viet Nam in 66, I was given the choice of carrying a pistol, or not. I took the .45 in addition to an M-16

    A month later after carrying the pistol, three mags, holster, mag pouch and cleaning kit, I begged the first Sgt to send it back to the rear and take it off my weapons card.

    I replaced the load with a couple of extra mags and an extra grenade,and felt much more secure. The pistol is totally useless for an infantryman in in combat. The .45 that I had was a piece of garbage, it rattled when shook, had no finish left and was very inaccurate. After riding in a wet holster for the day and night, it took half an hour to clean the piece of junk. Trying to survive in in the jungle, you don't really have an extra daily half an hour to waste cleaning a weapon the will not serve you in any practical way.

    The pistol, especially the 1911, is a fine toy to shoot, and great for old guys to fondle and play with, but it is an extravagant waste of weight for a grunt.

    I can't ever remember any of my buddies getting killed or wounded by an enemy withing pistol range, making it useless as a practical weapon. Most of our casualties came from expedient mines and indirect fire, certainly nothing you can defend against with a pistol.

    A backup? In a rifle squad, a more effective backup is the other nine grunts carrying M-16s.
    You'd probably offend a lot less people on the forum by putting in a couple of IMO and "at least for me" in your remarks. That being said; I was in Vietnam and Cambodia in 69/70 and can name numerous "instances" where the the 1911 was very much more practical over an M-16 (by-the-by Maytag made the M-16 I carried over there).
    We could start with being a tunnel rat, M16 was not practical in those confined spaces. We could finish on to the horrors of horrors "Charlie's in the wire", inside the confined spaces of an overrun bunker a 1911 and a Kabar made much more practical weapons.
    The 1911 was not designed to replace the combat rifle, but it had/has it's place in the combat theater, to totally dismiss it out of hand as useless or a "toy" is...well you get my drift.
    On a closing note I could always find time to clean and maintain "any" weapon issued to me and I did it like my life depended on it.
    Now if you'll excuse me this old guy is going to go shoot and fondle his 1911's toys.
    Professionals are predictable, it's the amateurs that are dangerous. "Murphy's Rules of Combat"

    Phil
    NRA Member
    Vietnam Vet

  3. #23
    Join Date
    3rd February 2007
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    Central Ky
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    I carried a 1911 on my submarine for launcher duty. Not much opportunity for actually drawing and firing though.
    We did have full auto M14's in our arms locker. Shooting those was definately a high point at that duty station.
    Qualifying was a great time.
    Finem Respice (Consider The end)
    Principils Obsta (Resist The Beginnings)

  4. #24
    Join Date
    16th March 2006
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    Having spent most of my time with the infantry in the jungle in Nam (1970-1971), my experience was that engagement was many many times in pistol range. It is very hard to see a long way in thick jungle, so engagement was very close. No pistol can take the place of a rifle in combat, but the 1911 is very good at what is intended for. There are many special military and law enforcement agencies that carry the 1911 in 45 acp and would argue that is is far from being a toy. I cleaned all the weapons I depended on and they all ways worked when I pulled the bang switch. Even though the pistol looked terrible and parts fit loosely.I gave up the 1911 and carried more mags for my M16, because the rifle is much more efficient and I was a terrible shot with a pistol.

    I wouldn't want to be at the receiving end of a 1911.

    Why is it that some folks moan about loose fitting old 1911 pistols that just keep on working and others praise the AK47 for its generous tolerances????
    Last edited by polekat; 13th April 2008 at 11:39.


  5. #25
    Join Date
    20th December 2005
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    Sorry, the .45 that the Army issued to me in Viet Nam was a useless piece of junk that did not work reliably nor shoot straight. And required daily maintenance far in excess of its utility. That's not my opinion, that was a sad hard fact.

    Our first Sgt carried a .45 and a Shotgun, at this point,his was the only .45 and shotgun in the company. If somebody needed to check out a cave or hole, Top loaned them his .45 and flashlight(he had one of the few flashlights).

    After the officers got CAR-15s, they quit borrowing Top's pistol to go pick up the monthly payroll.

    During the two tours that I spent in the bush, neither battalion ever killed an enemy with a pistol. We did have NDs from .45s that killed a chaplin's assistant and wounded a mortarman. That's a pretty pathetic track record for a weapon.
    Last edited by jaysouth; 13th April 2008 at 11:48.


  6. #26
    Join Date
    9th February 2007
    Location
    Texas
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    A lot of us carried a shot gun walking point, it was a good close in weapon. I won a Thompson in a poker game and managed to get 3 30 rd mags for it, don't know if Charlie was ever on the receiving end of a .45 slug (we just counted the bodies), but it worked great at gaining the close in fire power. Had to give it up after only 3 months though, couldn't get enough 45 cal to feed it.
    Professionals are predictable, it's the amateurs that are dangerous. "Murphy's Rules of Combat"

    Phil
    NRA Member
    Vietnam Vet

  7. #27
    Join Date
    4th April 2008
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    The Sawdust Emporium
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    Carried one in the early '70s whilst in the Navy. When we transported Kryto gear from one site to the next we had to carry. Then when on "Fire Watch" we carried and of course when we drew Shore Patrol duty we carried as well.

    You know, I sometimes wished those old guns could talk, especially on the "Fire Watch". I bet those old guns could tell some stories.

    .....

  8. #28
    Join Date
    16th March 2006
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    We had a new platoon medic show with a burp gun. He was carrying quite a load with his medical supplies, burp gun, mags, extra ammo, etc..... He developed heat stroke on his first 15 day stint in the bush and was then put on a medavac...never to seen again.

    Several of us tried out the burp gun for giggles. The burp gun went back with the medic.

    I do not remember there being a shotgun in the unit, but at least one pointman carried the M79 grenade launcher with buckshot.
    Last edited by polekat; 14th April 2008 at 09:41.


  9. #29
    Join Date
    20th December 2005
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    Polecat,\

    I once traded a carton of Kool Filter Kings for an M-3 Grease Gun and two mags(one of our gallant ARVN allies).

    After trying to figure how to carry it, there is no balance point, and shooting it for a few weeks, I finally realized that I got the short end of that deal.

    Kools cost $1.25 a carton at that place in time.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    6th February 2005
    Location
    Northern Alabama
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ditto_95
    I carried a 1911 on my submarine for launcher duty.
    Reminds me of that scene in the movie The Hunt for Red October where Ramius cautions Jack Ryan about shooting his gun (an M1911!) in the missile compartment.

    Hey, Ryan, be careful what you shoot at. Most things in here don't react too well to bullets.
    "I calculated the odds of this succeeding versus the odds I was doing something incredibly stupid, and ... I went ahead anyway." - Crow T. Robot
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