Welcome to M1911.ORG
The M1911 Pistols Organization Forums Site


John needs your help
Please read this message.


Sponsors Panel
If you intend to buy something from the companies advertising above, or near the bottom of our pages, please use their banners in our sites. Whatever you buy from them, using those banners, gives us a small commission, which helps us keep these sites alive. You still pay the normal price, our commission comes from their profit, so you have nothing to lose, while we have something to gain. Your help is appreciated.
If you want to become a sponsor and see your banner in the above panel, click here to contact us.

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 33

Thread: What beavertail fits the Springfields?

THREAD CLOSED
This is an old thread. You can't post a reply in it. It is left here for historical reasons.Why don't you create a new thread instead?
  1. #1
    Join Date
    29th May 2004
    Location
    Athens, Greece, Earth
    Posts
    28,076
    Posts liked by others
    204
    Blog Entries
    2

    What beavertail fits the Springfields?

    The following is courtesy of Precision Gunworks and Darrenk75b.

    The first beavertails group was originally made popular by the Ed Brown Memory Groove beavertail. This first group includes the King's Gun Works #207, the STI competition, the Chip McCormick "Extreme" and one from Enterprise Arms. They all are very close in appearance to the Ed Brown. Group 1 beavertails all share the common trait of raising your hand appreciably higher on the frame of the pistol than most other grip safeties. Because these safeties all raise the firing hand so high, there are some peculiarities associated with their installation on certain pistols. The Group 1 beavertails all require a good bit more external metal removal than the other two groups. Because Group 1 beavertails all use a .250" radius, the initial installation can be done on a mill with special tooling and then hand filed to fit. Type 1 beavertails present their own installation challenge. Because the sides of the frame tangs need to be shaped in an arc that matches up to the "tail" part of the grip safety, the lower side of the "shield" part of the thumb safety must be raised to match, otherwise it will overhang the frame's edge (when it's in the "disengaged or down" position). When the shield is reshaped to not overhang, a small portion of the hole in the frame that is beneath the shield may be exposed to view when the safety is raised to the "engaged or up" position. If you have an objection to the hole being exposed, you'd be well advised to select a Group 3 safety, that doesn't raise the hand quite so high.

    Group 2 beavertails all use the compound frame radius developed by Wilson Combat. This group includes the Wilson #298, the Caspian, Clark and Springfield Armory. The Group 2 products take less work to blend the exterior to the frame than the Group 1 beavertails, but because the frame joint is a compound radius, it's initial installation to the frame tangs is not conducive to machine cutting. Group 2's are generally ground to rough shape, using a template, then filed to fit by hand. They all give you the advantage of raising your hand on the frame, but not quite as high as Group 1. Group 2 safeties are a little less likely to expose the hole than Group 1 safeties.

    Group 3, the Smith and Alexander products, use either a .250" radius or a .220" radius. The smaller .220" radius was developed to solve a particular installation challenge found primarily on Springfield Armory frames (although it can be found on others). The S&A's need very little blending on the exterior, but in trade raise the hand little, if any. The Baer beavertail is very similar to the .250" S&A.

    Springfield

    There is a lot of misinformation circulating about beavertail installations on Springfield pistols. First, there are two different frames to consider: the Mil-Spec / WW II frames with original style frame tangs and "Loaded" pistols that come with a factory beavertail.
    Loaded model frames are cut for Wilson pattern beavertails and are usually over cut as they come from the factory. To get a nice tight joint, I usually weld the radius and re-fit the stock beavertail or a Wilson. A Group 1 beavertail can be fit, but will require a good bit of weld build up.
    Mil-Sec / WWII frames have G.I. style frame tangs that are shaped a little bit differently from the standard pattern. The tangs are a little shallow on the topside and when fit with a Group 1 beavertail often has a gap or mismatch on the top face of the frame to beavertail joint. This is not in every case, but in most. To avoid this mismatch, a small weld bead can be placed on top of each tang to add enough material to the tang to make a smooth joint. Group 2 beavertails can be fit without this extra welding. This frame is what the S&A .220" radius beavertail was designed for. S&A uses a smaller radius on this safety that moves the joint forward to where the frame tangs are thicker.
    John Caradimas SV1CEC
    The M1911 Pistols Organization
    http://www.m1911.org
    Last edited by John; 6th April 2005 at 00:37.


  2. #2
    Join Date
    1st June 2004
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    7,984
    Posts liked by others
    13
    Thanks John for clearing that up. I was mis-quoted in another thread about this. I was told by several folks that all the SA tangs were the same, and got another who said as you mentioed above that the Loaded was different.

    I confirmed this over the weekend, as I took my Loaded apart and placed a Wilson 298 into the frame............it fit very well, while the Brown was way off.

    I guess one way to go would be to order the Loaded BT straight from Springfield, and use it. I've looked it over and the quality is not that much different from the others on the market, plus it's not a high stress part such as a slide release etc.............so MIM should work okay in that area.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    29th May 2004
    Location
    Athens, Greece, Earth
    Posts
    28,076
    Posts liked by others
    204
    Blog Entries
    2
    I wish I could do the same with my ......

    Wait a minute, you said a Wilson beavertail fits the Springfields? Does that mean that a Springfield beavertail will fit a pistol cut for the Wilson? Can you verify that Steve? If a Springfield beavertail fits a pistol which has been cut for a Wilson, I may want two stainless ones too.

    Please tell me it does, the Springfield ones look so much nicer than the Wilson's, more like an Ed Brown one.

    Let me now please.
    John Caradimas SV1CEC
    The M1911 Pistols Organization
    http://www.m1911.org
    Last edited by John; 5th April 2005 at 14:56.


  4. #4
    Join Date
    1st June 2004
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    7,984
    Posts liked by others
    13
    Its not a real professional look, but its just as good as their drop ins.

    In your post from Precision Gunworks, it appears that they too have done some test fitting of different BT's on SA's.

    I have a 1911 here that has a Wilson BT on it, will take the BT off my Loaded and check and get back to you.............

  5. #5
    Join Date
    23rd January 2005
    Posts
    674
    Posts liked by others
    0

    SA Grip Safety's

    Neglect not the King's part# 204 that's a drop-in for all of SA's current GI & Mil-Spec models. While they do not have the appearance of a fit part, the look is no worse than one of Wilson's drop-in's on a Colt Govt. model.

    mitchjoe

  6. #6
    Join Date
    23rd January 2005
    Posts
    674
    Posts liked by others
    0

    Hey, wait a minute...

    I was thinking even as I punched the Submit Reply button a few minutes ago...I've used the same King's part number on both a Colt Commander and an SA GI model (which I recently sold)...that must mean that the frame tangs on SA's GI models and the Commander are the same (or at least very similar).

    So, that would mean the Wilson drop-in part for Colt Commander's would also fit Springer's GI and Mil-Spec models? Dang it! I wish I had one to try...since I don't I took a picture of my Cmdr, 1991A1, and an SA GI model. The difference in the Colt Commander and Govt. is obvious, but I can't see any difference in the SA & the Cmdr. I'll have to hit up the feller I sold the GI to. I've used the same part on both models and it never occured to me!

    I think the King's part looks better on an otherwise all original pistol (I still think the flat Colt grip-safety on the early XSE's, etc was best for looks), but if the Wilson Commander part will indeed fit, at least it's another option that does not require grinding.

    On the pic below from top to bottom: Colt Cmdr., Colt Govt., & SA GI.


    mitchjoe
    Last edited by mitchjoe; 25th April 2005 at 19:02.


  7. #7
    Join Date
    1st June 2004
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    7,984
    Posts liked by others
    13
    Did a test over the weekend. Took apart my Loaded and it seems the radius is in between .220 & .250

    Both a Wilson and a S&A BT fit, not the best.........about like a drop in. Not knocking drop ins, as the Wilson I have on my Commander looks a feels very good.

    Took apart another Loaded, and it had a slightly different radius.......the Wilson fit much better............lack of QC me thinks.

    From the pics that mitchjoe posted, it appears that the Commander & Springers are close.

    I've got another Wilson drop in here for a Commander, wish I had a GI or Mil-Spec to test it on...............

  8. #8
    Join Date
    12th February 2005
    Posts
    1
    Posts liked by others
    0
    Can anyone tell me where I can get a parkerized, wide grip safety to drop into my Springfield Mil-Spec 45 with tang hammer? Thanks. Al in AL
    alan.bollers@us.army.mil

  9. #9
    Join Date
    23rd January 2005
    Posts
    674
    Posts liked by others
    0

    SA Grip Safety

    GIALRet:

    Welcome to the Forum!

    Nobody I know of makes a parked, wide-type grip safety. King's lists a part for the GI & Mil-Spec Springer's (and as noted above, the Wilson part that's made for a Colt Commander will likely fit the SA's), but they're both a matte blue finish. The King's matches most closely from what I've seen.

    Drop-in is kind of a misnomer, as it refers to not having to modify the frame tang's; you will probably still have to fit the safety to the trigger bow (although I have gotten lucky a couple times).

    Aargh..read your post again. If your using the original spur-type hammer, you'll need to bob it to work w/ either of the above. King's does list a part that can be used w/ the spur hammer, but it's Colt Govt. model only.

    mitchjoe
    Last edited by mitchjoe; 6th August 2005 at 22:55.


  10. #10
    Join Date
    28th February 2005
    Location
    Las Vegas NV
    Posts
    328
    Posts liked by others
    0
    OK, I'm not afraid to profess my ignorance. Which group of SAs does my 1994 model Champion fall into. I would really love to install a beavertail, but don't know which one to order. The original dissertation left me more confused than ever. Dean
    Old and wiley beats young and exuberant everytime.

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  



Sponsors Panel
If you intend to buy something from Brownells, please use their banners above. Whatever you buy from them, gives us a small commission, which helps us keep these sites alive. You still pay the normal price, our commission comes from their profit, so you have nothing to lose, while we have something to gain. Your help is appreciated.
If you want to become a sponsor and see your banner in the above panel, click here to contact us.

Non-gun-related supporters.
Thank you for visiting our supporters.