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Thread: Recoil

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  1. #11
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    re:

    Hawk! God! Thank you! You'd be surprised...Nay! Shocked, at the number of people who will argue vehemently that the bullet moving forward gives the slide rearward momentum...and argue it until pigs fly!

  2. #12
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    Shocked, at the number of people who will argue vehemently that the bullet moving forward gives the slide rearward momentum...and argue it until pigs fly!
    Uh, isn't that exactly what you are saying? In physics it's called conservation of momentum. Momentum is = mv; mass x velocity. The mass of the projectile times it's velocity exerts an opposite force on the gun........that's the conservation part. That force that was created by the pressure is what causes the slide to cycle back against the restraint of the springs. It's a vector (a directional force) to be more exact.

    Isn't it?

  3. #13
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    Mass x velocity is momentum. Momentum must have both the mass and velocity to be present. There is no momentum when an object is at rest. There is no law about the conservation of momentum. The law is the law of conservation of energy. For example, a bullet that has not been fired has a potential energy, in the stored gunpowder. When the primer strikes, then you have energy released in the form of heat, light, and some of that energy is transferred to the bullet which travels down the barrel. Then the law of equal and opposite reactions comes into play. Hence the slide.
    Mass x Velocity Squared is how you measure the Kinetic Energy, which is the energy of a moving object. By this definition, momentum is a really a measure of kinetic energy.

  4. #14
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    Physics

    Yep, Kruz...but the bullet simply moving forward doesn't cause the slide to move. The force that MOVES the bullet also makes the slide move. Try explaining that to some people though...

    My latest attempt has been:

    Mass requires force to move it. Recoil is NOT a force. It's part of the result of a force applied.

    If you could pull the bullet through the barrel at the same rate of acceleration as the powder charge drives it...would the slide cycle? Nope.
    (Some seem to think that it would, for some obscure reason.)

    If you pull on the bullet and the slide at the same time, and with the same force...it would. Neither the slide nor the bullet know that the direction of the vector has changed. Pulled apart from the outside, or pushed apart from the inside...Same thing.

    Anyway...AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!

    There. I feel much better now...

  5. #15
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    1911Tuner,
    You need a drink after that!!!!
    Ivan

  6. #16
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    There is no law about the conservation of momentum.
    Sigh, http://www.glenbrook.k12.il.us/gbssc...tum/u4l2b.html

    (Maybe I should get tuition )

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kruzr
    Sigh, http://www.glenbrook.k12.il.us/gbssc...tum/u4l2b.html

    (Maybe I should get tuition )
    Probably. I oughta get a raise! My head hurts from bangin' it against a wall.


    Honestly...I can't seem to get it across to some guys that a blowback and a locked breech/recoil-operated pistol work exactly the same way, from the same forces. They only use a different means of delaying the breech opening.
    One uses slide mass and spring tension...The other ties the barrel to the slide until the bullet has exited. Simple...what?

    i.e. In a blowback, the bullet goes one way and the slide goes in the other and the barrel stands still...and the expanding gasses move both. Explain to me, if you please, sir...how is it that simply keeping the barrel connected to the slide for less than an eighth-inch of travel completely change the dynamics of that...exactly? Hmmmm? HMMMM?

  8. #18
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    Conservation of momentum applies to collisions between objects.
    The total momentum after the collision must be the same as before the collision.

    A bullet in a barrel is not a collision.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by brickeyee
    Conservation of momentum applies to collisions between objects.
    The total momentum after the collision must be the same as before the collision.

    A bullet in a barrel is not a collision.
    http://www.glenbrook.k12.il.us/gbssc...tum/u4l2e.html

    See if this helps.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kruzr
    Sigh, http://www.glenbrook.k12.il.us/gbssc...tum/u4l2b.html

    (Maybe I should get tuition )
    Do you honestly believe that, just because you read it on the Internet, it's correct?

    Gotttriplets said it right. The law is conservation of energy. I was a physics major. Never heard of any "conservation of momentum" law. I suspect it's something like new math -- a creation of teachers who can't figure out how to explain the real thing, so they come up with their own explanations ... which are usually badly flawed.
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside

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