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Thread: Amazing reduction in perceived recoil with a simple part change - EGW firing pin stop

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  1. #11
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    Stop

    A couple of points...

    The stops are available in Series 80 and pre-Series 80 types. The one shown here is a Series 80.

    A true radius isn't absolutely necessary. In fact, George recommends a light bevel for those not adept at creating a clean radius with a file...and it works well.

    The original specs called for a nominal .078 radius, but it varies from .075 to .080 inch. I've cut it as small as a 16th (.062) and as large as a 10th inch...depending on the application. i.e. The longer the slide, the smaller the radius. Remember that as the radius gets smaller, the more it resists the slide's rearward movement...and the more momentum it loses at the outset.
    Commanders get .075 or so. 5-inch guns get a 16th. Officer's Model/Defender class get the 1/10th inch radius. Although that seems backward, remember that the slide's momentum plays a big role in taking it to full rearward travel. When the radius causes it to lose a lot of that at the beginning of the cycle, you can run into short-cycles if you go too small with it. I'm also a "Light Springer"...that is...I tend to go down on the recoil spring loading instead of up, and use standard 16-pounds in 5-inch guns...standard 16 pound springs trimmed to 24 coils or so in Commanders...and clip the inner springs on dual spring systems in the chopped guns in order to prevent mag timing issues on the RTB. So...adjust the radius accordingly. Start with a small one and test it with the recoil spring that you intend to use, along with a new mainspring. If you go with a lightened mainspring, you can get away with a smaller radius...and don't under-estimate the effect that this firing pin stop will have on the slide's rearward speed and momentum. I've seen guns that throw brass 10-12 feet change to dropping it 3-4 feet away with just the addition of a .062 radiused stop and a new standard mainspring...and I've seen guns that throw it the "ideal" distance of 6 feet, barely dribble it out of the port.

    The additional benefit is that the stop is oversized and can be carefully sized to a light press-fit...which eliminates extractor clocking and having the stop fall out of engagement and tying up the gun if you let your firing pin spring go too long between changes. It's the best 15 bucks that you ever spent on your pistol.

  2. #12
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    Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by jeff1124
    Why wouldn't EGW sell them with the bevel/radius already cut if the benefits are so dramatic??
    LOL...After unrehearsed testimony, the skeptical still wonder.

    The reason that they're sold without the radius is to allow the installer to tune them to a specific gun and application. See my last post for a better understanding. The original specs were designed for the original 5-inch guns
    with standard spring...the only ones available at the time. Today, we have
    many variants and springs in all sorts of ratings. The square bottom allows
    for a much wider window of opportunity and fine-tuning of the gun.

  3. #13
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    Yeah, sure, that's a good explanation, but how about those of us who can't measure the radius and rely on eyeballing??? And what about those stupid enough who didn't know that they come in S70 and S80 versions? Good Lord, you are hiding information from us????

    LoL, I guess I have to order some more of these beauties.

    Sniper, remember, the second picture is a stop which is not properly fitted, it was filed more than needed, the picture is only used to show you the breaking area. (Gee, can't one make a mistake here?? The next two were perfect (for me, if Johnny could see them, I am sure he would think differently)).
    John Caradimas SV1CEC
    The M1911 Pistols Organization
    http://www.m1911.org

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by John
    LoL, I guess I have to order some more of these beauties.

    Sniper, remember, the second picture is a stop which is not properly fitted, it was filed more than needed, the picture is only used to show you the breaking area. (Gee, can't one make a mistake here?? The next two were perfect (for me, if Johnny could see them, I am sure he would think differently)).
    I seems as if you could correct the bevel, couldn't you (or is there too much metal already gone?).
    How did the gun preform with the stop cut that way John?
    ---
    Rick
    "Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty." Thomas Jefferson

  5. #15
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    70/80

    John...Isn't the one that I cut for you a Series 70 type?

    I've use radius gauges to check the stops, but found that I can get'em pretty close by eyeballing and comparing to a drill rod of the selected size, so I don't even bother with the gauges any more. It doesn't have to be exact,
    but it should be even all the way across to avoid side-loading the hammer.

    A final note if you decide to go with a simple bevel. Be sure to break the leftover corner on the back of the stop...the one that the hammer contacts
    as the slide pushes it back. Doesn't have to be perfect...just smooth it up a bit to allow it to glide across the hammer. You can do a nice job on it by just
    polishing it on a piece of 600-grit paper and using a "rocking" motion to slightly round the corner off. Back the paper up on a hard, flat surface...A piece of glass or flat steel stock will do. This operation won't take more than about 10-15 seconds. Do the same with the corner left at the bottom for a more finished appearance.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1911Tuner
    .

    A final note if you decide to go with a simple bevel. Be sure to break the leftover corner on the back of the stop...the one that the hammer contacts
    as the slide pushes it back. Doesn't have to be perfect...just smooth it up a bit to allow it to glide across the hammer. You can do a nice job on it by just
    polishing it on a piece of 600-grit paper and using a "rocking" motion to slightly round the corner off. Back the paper up on a hard, flat surface...A piece of glass or flat steel stock will do. This operation won't take more than about 10-15 seconds. Do the same with the corner left at the bottom for a more finished appearance.
    Isn't the corner that impacts the hammer the same one that has the bevel?
    Are you saying to smooth the corner at the top of the bevel?

    P.S. I wish you guys would make a list so that I get everything in one order, the UPS guy has started getting his mail at my place
    I just ordered some bushings from EGW
    ---
    Rick
    "Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty." Thomas Jefferson

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Dickie
    Isn't the corner that impacts the hammer the same one that has the bevel?
    Are you saying to smooth the corner at the top of the bevel?

    P.S. I wish you guys would make a list so that I get everything in one order, the UPS guy has started getting his mail at my place
    I just ordered some bushings from EGW
    Doc...If you look at the hammer as the stop contacts it, you'll see that the top corner formed by the bevel is the first contact point. Just a little smoothing makes things work...well, smoother. Smooth is good!

    When you order, make sure that you get the correct stop. The Series 80 type will work regardless, but not vice-versa. Also be aware that Commanders and other guns with the offset ejector may require a little relieving in the corner to allow it to clear the ejector. If your slide stops dead after installation...that's what is stopping it.

    As a footnote...many of the custom smiths do know about the stop's influence...and have been installing the small-radiused stops on the custom 10mm buildups, with great success. They discovered that the 5-inch guns are afforded the same impact buffering with an 18-pound recoil spring, a small radius on the stop, and a 23-pound mainspring as with the large radius stop (7/32nds) a 20-pound mainspring, (the darling of the 3-pound trigger set) and a 22-pound recoil spring. I believe that it was Ned Christiansen
    that experimented with it first...and it caught on. My enlightenment came
    with seeing original stops in the old guns that I used to buy up, rebuild, and shoot to destruction in my younger, less foresighted day...and before EGW
    started making their square-bottomed/tuneable stops...I searched the gunshow parts bins relentlessly for the old ones. Since the US Military had replaced the early stops with the "New Improved" versions many years ago...they were hard to come by...and I was forced at times to make my own. A very time-consuming exercise...and I'd like to give George a great big
    THANKS, BUDDY!

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1911Tuner
    Doc...If you look at the hammer as the stop contacts it, you'll see that the top corner formed by the bevel is the first contact point. Just a little smoothing makes things work...well, smoother. Smooth is good!
    Thanks Tuner.
    Another UPS order in the making
    ---
    Rick
    "Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty." Thomas Jefferson

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1911Tuner
    John...Isn't the one that I cut for you a Series 70 type?
    Yes Master, the one you send me was S70, but the five that Wichaka send me were S80, unfortunatelly.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1911Tuner
    A final note if you decide to go with a simple bevel. Be sure to break the leftover corner on the back of the stop...the one that the hammer contacts
    as the slide pushes it back.
    Hmm, I am not sure I understand which corner you are refering to this time. Can you please elaborate? I think that the hammer is first touched by that corner, which I filed a little. Which is the corner you refer to now?

    And of course, I asked George for some more of these delights.
    John Caradimas SV1CEC
    The M1911 Pistols Organization
    http://www.m1911.org

  10. #20
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    Corner

    John said:

    >Hmm, I am not sure I understand which corner you are refering to this time.<
    *******************

    Hold the stop so that you're looking at it from the side. Look at the bevel.
    Whenever a bevel is cut, it leaves two corners...one above and one below the bevel. The corner above the bevel is the one that the hammer will initially contact as the slide moves and the hammer starts to cock. Round that corner a little to let the hammer glide across it more smoothy. A couple of swipes on 600-grit paper should do it.

    It's not a dire necessity...basically just a little finishing touch.

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