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Thread: Norinco!!!?

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  1. #11
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    Mouth Peening

    Ah! Gotcha...

    The chamber face damage happens because, although the Chinese did a bang-up job of replicating the Ithaca-cloned "Model of the 1911A1" pistols,
    the one thing they either didn't notice...didn't consider as important...or flat
    didn't care about, was the slight angle (Undercut toward the bottom) on the chamber face that compensates for the barrel tilt as it goes into lockup.
    Ironically, the tighter the barrel fit, the more pronounced the damage, up to the point that the required clearance was obtained...or the owner noticed that it was getting badly beaten up and sought the aid of a smith...who usually refit another barrel. No sense in trying to establish the angle, since once the hard chrome plating was breached, it would likely start to peel off.

    This lack of clearance angle is the sole reason that only rarely do the barrels have the required 32nd inch gap...and the biggest majority sit flush with the feed ramp.

    I like the Norinco 1911s a lot...rough though they be...but any that I buy I tend to accept going into it that there's at least a 10% chance that I'll be doin' a little surgery on it. That said...I'll buy a Norinco any time I get the chance if the price is right, and I'm sure that it's not a "hot" item.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1911Tuner
    Ah! Gotcha...

    The chamber face damage happens because, although the Chinese did a bang-up job of replicating the Ithaca-cloned "Model of the 1911A1" pistols,
    the one thing they either didn't notice...didn't consider as important...or flat
    didn't care about, was the slight angle (Undercut toward the bottom) on the chamber face that compensates for the barrel tilt as it goes into lockup.
    Ironically, the tighter the barrel fit, the more pronounced the damage, up to the point that the required clearance was obtained...or the owner noticed that it was getting badly beaten up and sought the aid of a smith...who usually refit another barrel. No sense in trying to establish the angle, since once the hard chrome plating was breached, it would likely start to peel off.

    This lack of clearance angle is the sole reason that only rarely do the barrels have the required 32nd inch gap...and the biggest majority sit flush with the feed ramp.

    I like the Norinco 1911s a lot...rough though they be...but any that I buy I tend to accept going into it that there's at least a 10% chance that I'll be doin' a little surgery on it. That said...I'll buy a Norinco any time I get the chance if the price is right, and I'm sure that it's not a "hot" item.
    Roger that.

    I considered trying to undercut the chamber face, but like you noted, the peeneing was deep. It did teach me a lesson, though. When I plugged the new barrel into the A/O GI I have written so much about here, I swapped the link to as near GI as I had on hand (.280) and mated the barrel/frame per Kuhnhausen. Figured it'd just save trouble in the long run, and enhance the gun's already excellent reliability with JHP's. Today it fired about 80 more rounds of WW 230 JHP's in qualification, with nary a bobble. That brings it near 800 rounds total; HP's SWC's & ball... running like a sewing machine along the way.

    It pays to follow the original specs.

  3. #13
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    re:

    Sarge noted:

    >It pays to follow the original specs.<
    ***************************

    Yessir! Now, if we could just get that across to the manufacturers...

    The only thing that I can figure is that the Chinese didn't understand the tilting barrel and how it functioned. They may have assumed that it locked up parallel and tilted when it linked down, instead of vice-versa.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1911Tuner
    The only thing that I can figure is that the Chinese didn't understand the tilting barrel and how it functioned. They may have assumed that it locked up parallel and tilted when it linked down, instead of vice-versa.
    Now, Grasshoper assumes the proper position for the ignorant student and asks:

    So Teacher, what you mean by the above quote, is that the 1911 barrel is in reality tilted down (barrel muzzle lower than the rear end), when it is locked in the slide, and parallel to the slide, when it is unlocked and linked down?

    This has never occured to me all those years! Good Lord, I learn something new every day!

    Also, Johnny, can you please post a picture of which angle you are talking about? I am not sure I understand. Tnx
    John Caradimas SV1CEC
    The M1911 Pistols Organization
    http://www.m1911.org
    Last edited by John; 11th March 2006 at 09:01.


  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1911Tuner
    Sarge noted:

    >It pays to follow the original specs.<
    ***************************

    Yessir! Now, if we could just get that across to the manufacturers...
    All we can do is try, Amigo.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1911Tuner
    The only thing that I can figure is that the Chinese didn't understand the tilting barrel and how it functioned. They may have assumed that it locked up parallel and tilted when it linked down, instead of vice-versa.
    Must have been that danged "Chinese Arithmetic"

  6. #16
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    Amigos

    Keep screamin' Sarge...I will.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by John
    Now, Grasshoper assumes the proper position for the ignorant student and asks:

    So Teacher, what you mean by the above quote, is that the 1911 barrel is in reality tilted down (barrel muzzle lower than the rear end), when it is locked in the slide, and parallel to the slide, when it is unlocked and linked down?

    This has never occured to me all those years! Good Lord, I learn something new every day!

    Also, Johnny, can you please post a picture of which angle you are talking about? I am not sure I understand. Tnx
    John,
    Can you make this info into a sticky thread somehow? This info shouldn't be lost.
    Jerry

    Dang...look at that...when that second light bulb comes on, it's...like...twice as bright in here!


  8. #18
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    LoL, as soon as Johnny clarifies my question, I will!
    John Caradimas SV1CEC
    The M1911 Pistols Organization
    http://www.m1911.org

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Man River
    John,
    Can you make this info into a sticky thread somehow? This info shouldn't be lost.
    See....Now aren't you glad I asked the question?

  10. #20
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    Tilt

    Quote Originally Posted by John
    LoL, as soon as Johnny clarifies my question, I will!
    John...Yep. The barrel is tilted UP at the rear and down at the muzzle Put the gun in battery and look at the side of the gun to see how the end of the muzzle
    sits in relation to the front edge of the bushing. See how more of the muzzle protrudes at the top than at the bottom?

    It's the little things that getcha.

    The angled rear face of the chamber is too small to see in a photograph. It's only about one or two degrees. If you hold the
    barrel up and look at the side of the chamber face...imagine a straightedge sitting at 90 degrees to the bore axis...and then angle the bottom toward the muzzle. The bottom of the chamber face...the ramp/throat area...is further forward than the top.
    This compensates for the tilt into battery and allows the chamber face to sit square with the breechface.

    Actually...parallel in full linkdown isn't exactly accurate. Most guns drop a little below parallel, but at the point that the barrel lugs are just disengaged and don't yet have clearance for the slide to pass over...it's just about dead parallel.
    Last edited by 1911Tuner; 12th March 2006 at 09:50.


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