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Thread: Why you SHOULD NOT use a dremel when polishing your ramp

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  1. #1
    Join Date
    22nd November 2005
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    Las Vegas
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    I got the pics...

    I bought this Kimber Custom tac II from an acquantance who purported to be a gun-smith. Had a shop, customers, tools... who knew?

    Anyway, it sat in my safe for over a year before I got my wife to take it out and shoot it(it was her b-day present). FTF on almost every round. Ball ammo either jammed against the bottom of the barrel feed ramp or half way into the chamber.






    This is what the feed ramps look like.













    When I bought it I was much more ignant than I am now, and I bought the story of how great a job he'd done polishing the ramps. I now suspect he "polished" the frame ramp too far.

    Is there hope? Can she be fixed, or should I hang it on the wall as a lesson in caveat emptor?
    "It's you and me against the world... We attack at dawn." Mandy

    "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then, is not an act, but a habit." Aristotle


  2. #2
    Join Date
    1st June 2004
    Location
    Lexington, North Carolina...or
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    Ramps

    And not the Wild Mountain variety...

    Pictures 3 and 4 are perfect examples of what Dremel Dan can really do to a
    1911 pistol. Wish I had a dime for every one that's crossed my bench in the last 30-odd years. It began when all the gunzines were runnin' a "Ramp and Throat Job" article about every other month.

    The top corner of the frame ramp is lost. The bottom edge of the barrel ramp (throat) is overhanging into the magwell. The frame may be salvageable. Hard to tell without actually seein' it...and most smiths won't even attempt it...preferring to machine it out and install a ramp insert.

    For what it's worth...Even though most of this carnage was obviously wrought with a grinding wheel, I've seen just as much damage done with a buffing head and jeweler's rouge. It just takes longer and shines prettier.

    Dreampiper...If you were within drivin' distance, I'd take a crack at fixin' that. I've been able to pull it off about 95% of the time. Some are too badly whacked out to help, but yours doesn't look like it's gone that far.

    Go punch the guy in the mouth and tell him it's from me...

  3. #3
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    18th October 2005
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    Dear God! Just looking at it makes me want to curl up in a corner and do my Colonel Kurtz impression. The horror.... The horror....

    Kind of reminds me of the phrase, "Some people need killin' yer' honor."

  4. #4
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    29th May 2004
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    Quite so! What a butcher!
    John Caradimas SV1CEC
    The M1911 Pistols Organization
    http://www.m1911.org

  5. #5
    Join Date
    4th September 2004
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    North Carolina
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    I bought a Colt Series 70 GCNM and a Colt Series 80 Combat Elite that had similar work done. The Gold cup Still fed great but the sight of the ramp bothered be. I had to throat the barrel on the Combat Elite to even get it to feed anything other than ball. By the time I had the barrel throated enough for it to work I had lost more case support than I was comfortable with although I was not getting bulged cases and it was feeding great. After talking with Tuner and showing him the Colts I decided to have them fixed right. I took them to Tom Beliveau in Wendell North Carolina who can reweld and recut the feed ramps. After looking at the two frames and the polishing was not too bad he was able to recut the feed ramps and polish them like brand new. A new Colt barrel in my Combat Elite and you would never know such a deed had been done. I bought the two Colts knowing the feed ramps had been altered but I got a great deal on the pistols and was hoping they could be salvaged. My first move would be to let Tuner see them in person but since you are in Las Vegas that may not be possible. I would try and find a local gunsmith that you know and can trust to have the frame repaired. If you cannot find someone local and would be willing to ship your 1911 to a gunsmith in North Carolina I can give you Tom's number. He has a FFL so he can ship and receive firearms. He truly did a great job on my Colts and like I said now by looking you would never know.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    1st June 2004
    Location
    Washington State
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    dreampiper, if you can't find a local 'smith, I'm up here in Washngton.......you can send it up here and I'll take a crack at it.

    Tuner, what I was thinking is leaving the throat alone, but reshaping the ramp on the barrel before it gets to the throat, and blending it in with the frame.........I've done a few that way, and they have worked.......and are still going. Just cant be sure without seeing it in person, to check the angles.

    Other than that........not sure.

    Your thoughts?
    If it isn't durable, it isn't reliable.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    1st June 2004
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    Lexington, North Carolina...or
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    Thoughts

    Brother, if it was a steel frame, I'd say go for it. The hard anodizing is gone from that one, and it'd take about 350-400 rounds to deform or gouge the ramp...dependin' on whether he uses hollowpoinds or hardball.

    I reshaped a LW Commander like that once. Took less than 500 rounds to break it back down...Hardball. If all he wants to do is get the gun to run, and shoot it only once in a blue moon, it'd be worth a shot...but not if he's gonna shoot it.

    Also the issue of the barrel ramp. It'll have to be set forward on the bottom
    and the whole ramp recut and reshaped. If the headspace is right on the peg, it might wind up with enough loss of head support to bulge or blow cases.

    Your call, mah brother...

  8. #8
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    20th August 2005
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    I'm glad I don't know experts like that.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    22nd December 2005
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    pretty close to the Colt building
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    That just hurts to much to look at. I'd take it back to the "acquantance" and tell your story. Not that it will help much after a year. At least you can prevent any more "expert smithing" for the next guy. The more I read here the more I want to buy the house across the street from 1911Tuner or wichaka. Good luck, man that hurts.
    "Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learnt something from yesterday"

    ~Inscription on John Wayne's headstone.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    25th February 2006
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    We send a check to dremmel every year, keeps our earnings up unfortunately.

    Mind if I ramble?
    On aluminum frames the only fix is a steel insert feed ramp. If you use ours we mill a pocket into the frame, it is about .450 deep. the pocket holds the insert in place, we locktite it in and we put a set screw in under the slide stop so you can not see it outside the gun.

    As stated if you polish through the anodize the base aluminum is much softer and will get killed by any aggressive hollow points very quickly. Frames are normally hand coat anodized which is much tougher than decorative anodize.

    Some have tried ramp barrels to cure there gun. This does not work. Std issue 45's should have feed ramps about .400 from the top of the frame rails to the bottom of the feed ramp. Ramp barrel cuts typically are .300 to .310 deep. The first round off the magazine dips more than the ones after it. with aggressive hollow points the nose will dive to between .350 and .380 hitting below the ramp into the soft aluminum that is below the ramp.

    On steel frames we weld the ramp up and re machine it back to shape angle and depth. Than we polish. often a dremmel jockey moves the ramp forward and next when the bullets hit under the barrel the barrel becomes the next victim. Often we end up replacing a barrel and welding up and recutting a ramp to factory spec.

    want to save money on a custom gun? spend some. Find a guy that can not have it for thursday. Sure there are up and commers out there, but if the guy has bee at it for 12 years and he can have it tomorrow, worry.
    Ask to see some other work he or she has done. Your here on a forum so your interest is beyond the casual user. Compare the work to pictures posted and to magazine guns.

    When I was starting I worked with Austin Behlert, Austin said people polish this and that and they do not pay attention to what matters.

    Try this at home but not on a gun. take a piece of steel. Polish one side with some strait 220 sand paper. on the other side polish it with a dremmel. Knock your self out make it a shine. Now grab a jacketed bullet. push the bullet across the polished area and feel the ridges. The garden variety dremmel guy will polish his ramp the opposite direction the bullet travels.
    Now, push the bullet across the scratches of the 220 polish. not so good.
    Now push the bullet along the scratches on the 220 side. I bet it is smoother than across the polished dremmel area.

    We use 220 around a std. round bic pen, polish the machine lines out but make sure you are on the angle of the ramp. if your not sure, magic marker the ramp and keep track of where your hitting top bottom or all. you are simply trying to get the lines to go up and down and remove ONLY the mill marks. IF it is your first one try 600 grit to start, It will take longer to get into trouble. Finish up with 1200 grit and it will look polished and the polish is in the direction the bullet travels.

    Wile your at it, check how long the ramp is. Often today you will find ramps that are short. Look for bullet strikes on the frame at the bottom or below the ramp. Jacketed bullets show up much better.

    hope this helps
    geo

    www.egw-guns.com

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