New BATFE Rule

[Hawkmoon]

The National Shooting Sports Foundation has sent members a link to the new BATFE rule that significantly changes the definitions of "firearm," "frame," and "receiver." This new rule has been in preparation and review for more than a year, and it is intended to address (among other things) the alleged "problem" of so-called "ghost guns." For anyone who has ever been interested in building a 1911 from an 80% frame and/or a complete parts kit -- be sure to read and understand this new rule before you buy anything.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/ru...ation/download

Note that the new rule will become effective 120 days after publication in the Congressional Record. Basically, that means we have four (4) months left under the current rules. If you have ever considered building a 1911 from an 80% frame, this is the time to do it.

Discussion is allowed and encouraged, but please remember, this is a Law and Civil Rights discussion area, not a politics discussion area. Discussion of what the law says and how it will affect us is fair game. Posts that wander into politics will be deleted, because they won't help us understand the ramifications of the law.

[BrettID]

I read some cliff notes on another site yesterday. I understand the ruling is 300+ pages?

Personally I'm not interested in doing an 80% 1911 as my skills are lacking. But I will say that I don't like any new "rules" in my hobby. Which in my opinion equates to an infringement on my rights as stated in the 2nd.

What I was browsing the cliff notes for and didn't find an answer, was AR's. As in Palmetto State Armory kits and the like. One concern myself and others had before the ruling was serialization of both upper and lower were going to come out of this ruling. Hope not.

[Hawkmoon]

I read some cliff notes on another site yesterday. I understand the ruling is 300+ pages?

364 pages.

What I was browsing the cliff notes for and didn't find an answer, was AR's. As in Palmetto State Armory kits and the like. One concern myself and others had before the ruling was serialization of both upper and lower were going to come out of this ruling. Hope not.

The executive summary does mention the problem with what the BATFE refers to as "split receivers," which would include firearms such as AR-15s. I haven't had time to read the entire document, but I think it will require serialization of both the upper and lower receivers.

It may also require serialization of 1911 slides.

[BrettID]

That would just be terrible for the diy crowd. Like myself. Cost will be passed on to the consumer.

Can't get a law passed, so they'll backdoor it with definition changes.

Well I guess I got 120 days to stock up.....

[John]

Did I read correctly that Bidden appointed a new BATF chief?

[Hawkmoon]

Did I read correctly that Bidden appointed a new BATF chief?

He has proposed a new BATFE chief, but the appointment is subject to approval by the Senate. From what I have read, this new candidate isn't likely to be any better than the previous stooge.

https://www.firearmsnews.com/editori...tf-head/459583

[Murray]

Maybe a little off topic, but I've been thinking building a 1911 and an AR would be really educational/enjoyable. Anyone have any broad limitations on how I'd be able to use one once I had it? I know I wouldn't want to use one as a concealed carry, but in general would they generally be range toys/potential home defense items in either the pre or post rule change worlds?

Other than that, my read on it is the main concern on these serial numbers is 2nd amendment infringement and/or confiscation, forced buybacks, disarmament and increased tyranny. I was going to say "eventual" tyranny but the ball sure looks like it's been rolling for a while now.

[Hawkmoon]

Please re-state your question. I am not a lawyer but (obviously) I try to keep up on these issues. I'd be happy to try to answer, but I don't understand what you are asking.

As for pre or post rule worlds, "pre" is the way things are today. "Post" (which will be 120 after the new rule is published in the Congressional Record) will be exactly what the new rule says.

[Murray]

I've been mulling over how I'd rephrase that and I think I can try it as a couple of related questions: 1)What am I missing out on if I don't take advantage of the current laws before they change and 2)What are the limitations of owning a "scary ghost gun" vs. dropping by my local sporting goods store and buying off the rack? I'm thinking of things like "well, you generally can't take it to X or in Y manner, or your off the shelf rifle is perfectly fine here, but you'll be doing time/paying a giant fine for doing the same thing with a rifle you assembled entirely legally yourself."

I'm definitely not asking anyone for authoritative, legal or other qualified types of advice here, just opinions. If they're informed ones, all the better.

[Hawkmoon]

What you would miss out on is the possibility of building a 1911 with no serial number. To some people that's a feature, to other people that's a bug. Under the new rules you'll still be able to buy an 80% frame, but you'll have to buy it through an FFL and it will have a serial number.

In reality, the new rule may kill the 80% frame market. You can buy a completed, finished frame today for a lot less $$$ than what you'll pay for an 80% frame. Some people are willing to pay the premium to get a pistol without a serial number. That's what keeps the 80% frame makers and vendors in business. Once the 80% frames have to be treated exactly the same as the finished frames, I would expect the demand to dry up. The only people who might still buy one are the die-hard do-it-yourselfers who are willing to pay extra just for the cachet of being able to say "I made that!"