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Thread: 1944 or 43 Ithaca 1911 (original?)

  1. #1
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    1944 or 43 Ithaca 1911 (original?)

    I introduced myself earlier and was just hoping to get some help confirming the details about this pistol, like the year and potential parts originality.

    It was advertised as 1944 but I researched a bit and no idea if that's right. I think it may be a 1943. Everything else looked good to my lame eyes, so I bought it.

    If you need a different angle or better quality, just let me know.

    (one grip was reluctant to release from the frame so I left it there)

    PXL_20210624_132442412 (2).jpg

    PXL_20210624_132408187.jpg

    PXL_20210624_132524877.jpg

    PXL_20210624_132547178.jpg

    PXL_20210624_133014528 (2).jpg

  2. #2
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  3. #3
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    Welcome to the forum. Clawson's Collector's Guide lists your serial as 1944.

    "All the same color" parts indicates all refinished at the same time in the same batch of solution. Not done that way at the factory or military repair facilities.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doran View Post
    Welcome to the forum. Clawson's Collector's Guide lists your serial as 1944.

    "All the same color" parts indicates all refinished at the same time in the same batch of solution. Not done that way at the factory or military repair facilities.
    Roger that,
    I was advised today that if it has been refinished outside of the factory, the feed ramp in the frame will not be bare metal, as apparently they had the finish removed on the feed ramp from the factory.
    In addition, the serial number should have bare metal inside the edges of the numbers due to being stamped post-parkerizing.
    Will grab some better photos of it once I'm home from work.
    Thanks!
    Last edited by evonorth; 25th June 2021 at 09:39.


  5. #5
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    On another forum, someone had also suggested it had been re-parkerized, and requested further pictures of the frame and SN because that could apparently help confirm if it had.
    These are those pictures.

    Feed ramp as it was when I disassembled the handgun
    PXL_20210625_133359794.jpg
    I then wiped it with a dry kleenex.
    PXL_20210625_133455192.jpg

    The SN at an angle checking for bare metal
    PXL_20210625_133808656.jpg

    "P" marks also have what appears to be bare metal, and some surface rust inside the P on the slide.
    PXL_20210625_135402071.jpg
    PXL_20210625_135412747.jpg

  6. #6
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    I can't tell if this stamp has bare metal in it. Very faint

    edit: picture rotated

    PXL_20210625_145415722.jpg
    PXL_20210625_145435468.jpg
    Last edited by evonorth; 25th June 2021 at 10:21. Reason: sorry


  7. #7
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    When viewed at a slight angle some stamps might appear "shiny" due to burnishing. The stamp compresses the parkerizing to the point it's smoother than the flat, dull surfaces and might reflect light.

    The bare feed ramp a good sign but refinishers also know this detail also and might remove any parkerizing in this area.

    Small parts were finished in separate tanks/solutions, sometimes by outside vendors. Normally these small parts appear slightly darker than the frame/slide.

    Check areas that rub together during cycling. One place to look the left bottom edge of the slide where it rubs against the slide stop. Check for grooves from wear filled in with parkerizing.

  8. #8
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    My response deleted as I was trying to edit it... Hooray for mobile.

    Right, burnishing that's the word.
    I was told burnishing "cannot be faked or re-created" on a re-finished pistol. I would assume the only caveat to that is if you have the proper stamps to re-stamp it. Unlikely.

    I was told the SN and DOD acceptance marks were stamped post parkerizing, and should have bare metal and possibly slight rust as a result.
    The SN is burnished, and is quite clear when viewed in a low-light photo (which I forgot to attach) when comparing it to the stampings on the slide adjacent to it.
    The P stamps (are these the DOD acceptance stamps?) Are also clearly burnished, particularly the slide stamp.
    The cannons are incredibly faint, and thus nearly impossible for me to tell if they're burnished, although I spotted what looked like a sheen when examining all the stamps again for burnishing as I was advised.

    Based on your choice of words, it sounds like although an original finish having much of the same tone on all parts is improbable, it may not be impossible.
    I have no reference material to digest, so all I can do at the moment is read as literally as possible into the words I'm told by yourself and others who are gracious enough to offer advice. Which is why I've consulted more than one forum.
    Such as the slide-stop wear tidbit; I will absolutely be looking at that when I have the gun in hand again, and post pictures accordingly. Is there any other areas of note I should be checking for wear or notable quirks?

    Much appreciated!!
    Cheers

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doran View Post
    Check areas that rub together during cycling. One place to look the left bottom edge of the slide where it rubs against the slide stop. Check for grooves from wear filled in with parkerizing.
    This is like a treasure hunt. I'm all excited!
    Such so that I whipped home from work quickly to grab some pictures.
    One I took with the slide on the frame and the slide stop removed was corrupted, and I didn't realize until getting back to work though.. So only two pictures right now

    Slide Stop wear with ambient room lighting (not natural light)
    It APPEARS like the portion I highlighted has a groove with finish in it? In my haste, I didn't look incredibly closely with my own eyes or fingers.
    However, there is no wear at all in that location, and the rest of the slide which contacts the slide stop does have plenty of wear.
    So I'm not sure if the finish would have ever worn from there if it was done at the factory.
    PXL_20210626_095007053~2.jpg

    Slide stop area with flashlighting
    Once beamed with a bright light, the darker regions in the center of the slide-stop wear turn a light-brown colour, which to me looks like the early stages of surface rust rather than a finish.
    Again, could be wrong, and that's why I'm posting it here.
    PXL_20210626_094945796.jpg
    Last edited by evonorth; 26th June 2021 at 05:49.


  10. #10
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    Difficult to say from photos. If you can feel a definite groove in the slide from slide stop wear it should be bare metal. If you can detect parkerizing in the bottom of the groove that indicates refinish.

    Another place to look is the cocking rail in the center bottom of the slide. The hammer and disconnector rub this area during cycling. Any wear down the center of the cocking rail filled in with parkerizing indicates refinish.

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