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Thread: Ria 1911 accidental discharge

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  1. #21
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    12th June 2015
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    Get those lottery tickets.

  2. #22
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    2nd June 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anglin82 View Post
    None of my "1911's"- so far 6... would allow the hammer to fall past half cock unless the trigger was pulled. On the rare occasions when I did have to carry/handle them loaded, hammer "down"- it was at 'half cock. I was instructed that was "Condition 2"? Am I missing something?
    Wow! I somehow missed this for six weeks.

    Yes, you are missing something. Wherever you learned the conditions was incorrect. There are five (5) generally-accepted conditions of readiness for the 1911, from zero through 4. Hammer on half-cock is not one of them. The half-cock is a mechanical safety. It was never intended to be used as a primary carry position/condition. Carrying on half-cock over a loaded round? When you do that, there is nothing between you and a negligent discharge. The thumb safety can't be engaged with the hammer on half cock.

    https://sightm1911.com/Care/1911_conditions.htm

    The legendary guru of the combat 1911, Jeff Cooper, came up with the “Condition” system to define the state of readiness of the 1911-pattern pistol. They are:

    Condition 0 – A round is in the chamber, hammer is cocked, and the safety is off.
    Condition 1 – Also known as “cocked and locked,” means a round is in the chamber, the hammer is cocked, and the manual thumb safety on the side of the frame is applied.
    Condition 2 – A round is in the chamber and the hammer is down.
    Condition 3 – The chamber is empty and hammer is down with a charged magazine in the gun.
    Condition 4 – The chamber is empty, hammer is down and no magazine is in the gun.

    The mode of readiness preferred by the experts is Condition One. Generally speaking, Condition One offers the best balance of readiness and safety. Its biggest drawback is that it looks scary to people who don’t understand the operation and safety features of the pistol.
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside
    Likes (6) :
    BlackOpsSec (18th December 2021), Mark75H (13th March 2021), PolyKahr (13th March 2021), Rick McC. (13th March 2021), tnhawk (4th April 2021), Warbirdnut (31st March 2021)


  3. #23
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    28th November 2006
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    That is funny about the disadvantage of carrying in Condition one. A county cop followed me home on my motorcycle because my Rock Island was showing. She ran the wrong plate, so when she checked, it didn't show her that I have a carry permit. She said something about me carrying with the hammer cocked. I explained the situation to her.

    My gun was a lot safer than her Glock, that's for sure.
    Load Master videos & negligent discharge page
    http://loadmastervideos.com/
    http://negligentdischarge.com/
    Likes (2) :
    BlackOpsSec (18th December 2021), Rick McC. (19th May 2021)


  4. #24
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    8th December 2014
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    Question, with hammer down and a round in the chamber. Is there any difference in regards to safety between a 1911 series 70 vs. series 80 with the firing pin block?

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocWyatt View Post
    Question, with hammer down and a round in the chamber. Is there any difference in regards to safety between a 1911 series 70 vs. series 80 with the firing pin block?
    Yes, but not under most circumstances.

    The 1911 uses a floating, "inertial" firing pin. Even with the hammer down, the firing pin does not make contact with the primer. When the hammer is cocked, the firing pin spring retracts it, so that it extends out by a sixteenth of an inch or so beyond the surface of the firing pin retainer. When the hammer falls, the impact transfers the energy from the hammer into the firing pin, sending the firing pin into the primer.

    Under most conditions, when the hammer is down there's no way to transfer ANY energy into the firing pin, let alone enough energy to set off a primer. The exception is when a pistol is dropped directly on the muzzle. When the muzzle lands on a hard surface, the gun will stop moving down but, because the firing pin is not rigidly attached to the firearm, it will tend to continue moving in the downward direction. Walt Kuleck and Drake Oldham ran tests a few years ago proving conclusively that a 1911 will fire if dropped on the muzzle.

    If the firing pin is free to move.

    The Series 80 firing pin block always blocks the firing pin unless and until the trigger is pulled. That means if you drop a Series 80 pistol on the muzzle, the firing pin will not be free to move far enough to make contact with the primer. In my opinion, the only circumstance in which the Series 80 firing pin block makes any difference at all is if/when a pistol is dropped and falls on the muzzle.
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside
    Likes (1) :
    dartman (23rd July 2022)

    Last edited by Hawkmoon; 24th July 2022 at 09:35.


  6. #26
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    Thank you Hawkmoon. Okay, I think I got that, but what I don't understand clearly was if the OP pistol had a series 70s, I might see how how his problem might have happened by reading the thread. but what I don't understand clearly, is if the firing pin block is not engaged via the trigger, would that scenario might have been highly improbable using a pistol with a series 80 firing pin system? Am I missing something? Thank you.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocWyatt View Post
    Thank you Hawkmoon. Okay, I think I got that, but what I don't understand clearly was if the OP pistol had a series 70s, I might see how how his problem might have happened by reading the thread. but what I don't understand clearly, is if the firing pin block is not engaged via the trigger, would that scenario might have been highly improbable using a pistol with a series 80 firing pin system? Am I missing something? Thank you.
    No, you are not missing anything. In this case, the pistol apparently fired because the hammer was snagged by something and pulled back far enough to discharge the loaded cartridge when it dropped. That could not happen in a pistol with a Series 80 firing pin safety.
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside
    Likes (2) :
    DocWyatt (23rd April 2021), LarryM (4th November 2021)


  8. #28
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    25th September 2005
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    Kyback, If that happened to me and had powder residue on my drawers, there would have been a lot of other Residue on My Drawers. Lol
    Glad you were not hurt.
    When I had purchased a new Colt Commander, I first took it to the range to try it out. A very nice looking Stainless Commander.
    Loaded the mag, and into the Pistol, with the slide locked back. I hit the slide release, and the Hammer followed the slide.
    I took the mag out, racked the slide to eject the round, and locked the slide. Hit the slide release again, no round, and the hammer fell.
    I tried using the Sling-Shot Method, and the hammer fell.
    I sold that Colt, and told the buyer what it was doing, and never bought another Colt.
    May have been an easy fix, but I had had too many problems with Colts.
    I switched to Glocks, and later on I bought a Rock Island and started enjoying 1911's again.
    Not long ago I bought my first Kimber, and she is doing just fine.
    Last week I bought another Rock Island, a A Rock CS, and waiting for it to arrive at my FFL.
    Good Luck with Yours, and hope it is an easy fix.
    Cond 1 is the safest way to carry, unless you want to Rack a Round after you draw.
    GOTTA CLEAN EM & KEEP ON SHOOTIN
    Likes (1) :
    dartman (23rd July 2022)


  9. #29
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    3rd April 2005
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    I test my gun like this, without a round in the chamber (safety first, always keep in mind). I fully cocked the pistol. Turn on the thumb safety. Without pressing the grip safety, press the trigger. If hammer don't fall gun is good for the first part. Second is by pressing the grip safety (thumb safety is still on) then pressing the trigger again. If hammer does not fall its ok for the second part. Next test is while the thumb safety is still on. Hands off the trigger.. try like hammering your gun with your hand like giving it a shock and see if hammer falls. If it falls your gun is unsafe. Another test is, hammer down, while pressing the trigger (no magazine and no round in chamber) rock the slide and drop, if hammer don't fall then it passed this safety test. You should also check the weight of the trigger pull. I think it should be 4 pounds or more. If one or more of these tests fails you need a professional gun smith to fix it. Also a good retention holster with fully covered trigger is also a must for safety. Hope I do not forget any on this list for safety test. Drop test? That I wouldn't do. Lol.

  10. #30
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    Just had an AD ria 1911 a1-fs. Had it half cocked and set it down on the coffee table. I do have tape around the handle safety. I rarely leave it half cocked just because I do not like to pull the trigger to set it at half cocked.Its usually one chambered and cocked and locked. It's usually in a spot I can get to fast incase of an intruder but I'm moving things around for a remodel. Thank god no one was hurt. But I never point it in any direction of somewhere someone may be.But we do have a dead TV and a picture window now. I've unloaded it and put it in the same position and dropped a few times on the table harder than I originally had. I honestly was lightly setting it down. The tape is on the handle safety becuse I think they are ridiculous and when training with it in a quick draw or having to get it and fire it in a hurry it did not depress fully and caused it to not fire. As I said this is in a spot in the house where if we have an intruder it can be accessed fast. I definitely will not use it for a carry weapon.

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