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Thread: Ria 1911 accidental discharge

  1. #21
    Join Date
    12th June 2015
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    Get those lottery tickets.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anglin82 View Post
    None of my "1911's"- so far 6... would allow the hammer to fall past half cock unless the trigger was pulled. On the rare occasions when I did have to carry/handle them loaded, hammer "down"- it was at 'half cock. I was instructed that was "Condition 2"? Am I missing something?
    Wow! I somehow missed this for six weeks.

    Yes, you are missing something. Wherever you learned the conditions was incorrect. There are five (5) generally-accepted conditions of readiness for the 1911, from zero through 4. Hammer on half-cock is not one of them. The half-cock is a mechanical safety. It was never intended to be used as a primary carry position/condition. Carrying on half-cock over a loaded round? When you do that, there is nothing between you and a negligent discharge. The thumb safety can't be engaged with the hammer on half cock.

    https://sightm1911.com/Care/1911_conditions.htm

    The legendary guru of the combat 1911, Jeff Cooper, came up with the “Condition” system to define the state of readiness of the 1911-pattern pistol. They are:

    Condition 0 – A round is in the chamber, hammer is cocked, and the safety is off.
    Condition 1 – Also known as “cocked and locked,” means a round is in the chamber, the hammer is cocked, and the manual thumb safety on the side of the frame is applied.
    Condition 2 – A round is in the chamber and the hammer is down.
    Condition 3 – The chamber is empty and hammer is down with a charged magazine in the gun.
    Condition 4 – The chamber is empty, hammer is down and no magazine is in the gun.

    The mode of readiness preferred by the experts is Condition One. Generally speaking, Condition One offers the best balance of readiness and safety. Its biggest drawback is that it looks scary to people who don’t understand the operation and safety features of the pistol.
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside
    Likes (5) :
    Mark75H (13th March 2021), PolyKahr (13th March 2021), Rick McC. (13th March 2021), tnhawk (4th April 2021), Warbirdnut (31st March 2021)


  3. #23
    Join Date
    28th November 2006
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    That is funny about the disadvantage of carrying in Condition one. A county cop followed me home on my motorcycle because my Rock Island was showing. She ran the wrong plate, so when she checked, it didn't show her that I have a carry permit. She said something about me carrying with the hammer cocked. I explained the situation to her.

    My gun was a lot safer than her Glock, that's for sure.
    Load Master videos & negligent discharge page
    http://loadmastervideos.com/
    http://negligentdischarge.com/
    Likes (1) :
    Rick McC. (19th May 2021)


  4. #24
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    8th December 2014
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    Question, with hammer down and a round in the chamber. Is there any difference in regards to safety between a 1911 series 70 vs. series 80 with the firing pin block?

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocWyatt View Post
    Question, with hammer down and a round in the chamber. Is there any difference in regards to safety between a 1911 series 70 vs. series 80 with the firing pin block?
    Yes, but not under most circumstances.

    The 1911 us a floating, "inertial" firing pin. Even with the hammer down, the firing pin does not make contact with the primer. When the hammer is cocked, the firing pin spring retracts it, so that it extends out by a sixteenth of an inch or so beyond the surface of the firing pin retainer. When the hammer falls, the impact transfers the energy from the hammer into the firing pin, sending the firing pin into the primer.

    Under most conditions, when the hammer is down there's no way to transfer ANY energy into the firing pin, let alone enough energy to set off a primer. The exception is when a pistol is dropped directly on the muzzle. When the muzzle lands on a hard surface, the gun will stop moving down but, because the firing pin is not rigidly attached to the firearm, it will tend to continue moving in the downward direction. Walt Kuleck and Drake Oldham ran tests a few years ago proving conclusively that a 1911 will fire if dropped on the muzzle.

    If the firing pin is free to move. The Series 80 firing pin block always blocks the firing pin unless and until the trigger is pulled. That means if you drop a Series 80 pistol on the muzzle, the firing pin will not be free to move far enough to make contact with the primer. In my opinion, the only circumstance in which the Series 80 firing pin block makes any difference at all is if/when a pistol is dropped and falls on the muzzle.
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside

  6. #26
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    8th December 2014
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    Thank you Hawkmoon. Okay, I think I got that, but what I don't understand clearly was if the OP pistol had a series 70s, I might see how how his problem might have happened by reading the thread. but what I don't understand clearly, is if the firing pin block is not engaged via the trigger, would that scenario might have been highly improbable using a pistol with a series 80 firing pin system? Am I missing something? Thank you.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocWyatt View Post
    Thank you Hawkmoon. Okay, I think I got that, but what I don't understand clearly was if the OP pistol had a series 70s, I might see how how his problem might have happened by reading the thread. but what I don't understand clearly, is if the firing pin block is not engaged via the trigger, would that scenario might have been highly improbable using a pistol with a series 80 firing pin system? Am I missing something? Thank you.
    No, you are not missing anything. In this case, the pistol apparently fired because the hammer was snagged by something and pulled back far enough to discharge the loaded cartridge when it dropped. That could not happen in a pistol with a Series 80 firing pin safety.
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside
    Likes (1) :
    DocWyatt (23rd April 2021)


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