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Thread: Winchester .45 FMJ

  1. #1
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    Winchester .45 FMJ

    I recently purchased some Winchester 230 grain FMJ rounds. I was looking for a load to use with them. I found some recipes with Winchester 231 etc, but none using Titegroup or Bullseye. Does anybody here use any of these powders with Winchester 230 gr FMJ, if so, are you willing to post your load? Any help is appreciated.

  2. #2
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    ???

    "Rounds" are loaded cartridges. Did you buy ammunition, or bullets?

    The 2014 Alliant handbook shows a Bullseye load of 5.7 grains (maximum) loaded to a minimum C.O.A.L. of 1.265" for a 230-grain FMJ bullet.Lyman's 50th reloading manual shows a starting load of 3.8 grains and a maximum load of 5.3 grains, at a C.O.A.L. of 1.275".


    For Titegroup, the Hodgdon web site doesn't have a load recipe for a 230-grain FMJ round nose bullet. They do have a load for a 230-grain flat-point. They show a range of 4.4 to 4.8 grains, at a C.O.A.L. of 1.200". The key to adapting load data for use with different bullets of the same weight is knowing the actual seating depth (the amount the bullet projects into the case, which controls the residual case volume and thus the pressure). That's where our bullet comparison spreadsheet comes in.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=519572970

    In general, a flat-point bullet is a FMJ with the tip sliced off. To achieve the same seating depth as a flat-point bullet of the same weight, a FMJ round-nose will have to be loaded to a slightly longer C.O.A.L.

    Unfortunately, Lyman's manual doesn't have a recipe for Titegroup with a 230-grain FMJ bullet.
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside
    Likes (1) :
    Sergio Natali (27th October 2020)

    Last edited by Hawkmoon; 16th October 2020 at 03:20.


  3. #3
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    Hello Hawkmoon...I bought bullets. Thanks for the link you provided, that comparison sheet is a big help for future reference. I only looked quickly, but it seems that the Hornady 230 grain FMJ and Winchester 230 grain FMJ are pretty close to one another. I have loaded Hornady FMJs before, I will look a little closer and see if I can work something out. Ultimately, I think that I will just get some Winchester 231 and give it a try. Currently, for my pistol rounds (.38, 9mm & .45), I use three different powders. I don't do this because I like to complicate matters but because of availability in my area, I can usually get one of the three. Since 231 is used for all three calibers, I may drop one of my least favorite of the three and replace it with 231.

  4. #4
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    For what it's worth, Hodgdon HP-38 is the same powder as Winchester 231. If you can't find Win 231 but they have HP-38 ... buy it.
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside

  5. #5
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    Thanks for the info. I am going to try to get some powder tomorrow, hopefully I can find some. Primers are just about impossible to get in my area, to my complete surprise I was able to get some CCI #34 and CCI 200 primers a while back...dumb luck on my part I guess! Everybody is panic buying it seems, I always say buy what you need and a little extra...don't max out your credit card and empty the store in the process!

  6. #6
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    I load 4.4 to 4.5 grains of TiteGroup for my 230gr fmj bullets. Hodgdons has their recommended loads on their site and if I remember right this is what they advise for a "midrange" load.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD11 View Post
    I load 4.4 to 4.5 grains of TiteGroup for my 230gr fmj bullets. Hodgdons has their recommended loads on their site and if I remember right this is what they advise for a "midrange" load.
    The Hodgdon web site does not provide sany load data for a 230-grain FMJ projectile. They list data for a flat-nose projectile. To use that data, you will need to calculate seating depth and adjust the charge and C.O.A.L. accordingly.
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkmoon View Post
    The Hodgdon web site does not provide sany load data for a 230-grain FMJ projectile. They list data for a flat-nose projectile. To use that data, you will need to calculate seating depth and adjust the charge and C.O.A.L. accordingly.
    They list it in my Hodgdon reloading manual, I figured they showed it on their website too. They DO also show a 230 gr. LRN Starting load 4.0, max 4.8. Surprised they don't show more, I'm thinking maybe they used to.
    Last edited by JD11; 20th October 2020 at 08:13.


  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD11 View Post
    They list it in my Hodgdon reloading manual, I figured they showed it on their website too. They DO also show a 230 gr. LRN Starting load 4.0, max 4.8. Surprised they don't show more, I'm thinking maybe they used to.
    Yes, the Hodgdon web site shows a 230-grain LRN bullet with Titegroup, and they show a 230-grain Hornady FMJ Flat-Point. Those are the only two loads shown on the web site for 230-grain projectiles with Titegroup.

    As you probably know, a loading recipe is valid ONLY when you use every part of that recipe exactly as listed. Projectiles, in particular, should not be substituted blindly, because different bullets of the same weight and general classification (i.e. "round nose") have different lengths. Not "may have" different lengths -- they DO have different lengths. That's why M1911.org began our project to tabulate the dimensions of as many bullets as possible.

    When loading bullets of different actual bullet length to the same cartridge overall length, what's going to change? Answer: the case volume under the bullet. And varying the case volume under the bullet is going to affect the pressure, so it's a safety concern. When substituting a bullet in a recipe, what you need to be concerned with is the seating depth. First you need to calculate the seating depth for the bullet in the recipe. Then you calculate the seating depth for your substitute bullet. If your new seating depth is equal to or less than the bullet in the recipe (the same or more residual case volume), then your substitution won't increase pressure and you're generally safe to try it. If your substitution results in a greater seating depth (less residual case volume), it's not safe unless you reduce the powder charge below what's called for in the recipe and work up a new load. In that case -- the recipe is INvalid, and you're on your own.

    I ignore all data for lead bullets. Lead bullets react differently than plated and jacketed bullets, so IMHO load recipes for lead bullets are of no use, value, or interest to me.
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside
    Last edited by Hawkmoon; 20th October 2020 at 10:31.


  10. #10
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    I'm the opposite of Hawkmoon as I practically never shoot jacketed or plated bullets in the 1911 - only cast lead. But that doesn't keep me from experimenting with Hawkmoon's kind!

    Another reason why the same weight lead and jacketed/plated (J/P) bullets can behave differently (in pressure and/or muzzle velocity) is because of their diameters. Lead bullets can be anywhere from 0.001" to 0.002" bigger and because of that do a better job of filling the barrel grooves. I've measure a lot of commercial J/P bullets and have never found one measuring 0.4520"D. Most were in the 0.4505"D to 0.4515"D range. Because of this, J/P bullets generally have a lot of blow-by when fired, as shown below,....

    Mythbusters 1911 HS Video Snapa.jpg

    Of course barrel groove diameter is also a factor in blow-by, pressure and velocity. But logic tells me that if a lead bullet fills the grooves better and thus has less blow-by, then with the same seating depth/residual case volume, bullet weight, powder and powder charge, the lead bullet ought to have a higher pressure and muzzle velocity. In addition, the max load for a lead bullet should then be less than that for a J/P bullet.

    But that's just my logic, which may have little or nothing to do with the matter at hand!
    When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind. [Lord Kelvin]
    Likes (1) :
    slohunter (27th October 2020)

    Last edited by niemi24s; 20th October 2020 at 17:50.


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