Questions about P10

[1Sourdough]

Hawkmoon, here is a picture of the P10 with the slide locked to the rear, showing what I meant about the round head on the guide rod. Where did that go in the stripped picture?
Attachment 5457

[Hawkmoon]

In a 'Different Strokes' sort of way it resembles the Officers ACP, which I believe is really close to the Defender. The barrel bushing isn't visible in the picture, does it not get removed from the slide during disassembly? It appears after the slide stop pin is removed, the plug is released somehow, and the slide moved forward like any 1911. Then the guide rod and spring assembly may be removed when access to the underside of the barrel is gained. Is the plug removed out the front like a full size 1911, or does it come out to the rear after the springs and barrel are withdrawn?

The pictures I have seen of the slide locked to the rear look like the guide rod has a large round head at its front, and the appearance of the plug in this picture surprised me.

No, it doesn't resemble the recoil system of the Officers ACP. I have an OACP. It has a conventional (but VERY short) recoil spring guide, which has a diameter of .250" rather than the usual .330", to make room for two springs, the smaller of which fits inside the larger. The early Para P12.45s used the same exact system as the Colt Officers ACP. With that system, the recoil spring plug has a closed front, but it isn't retained by the barrel bushing (although there is a barrel bushing). The plug is retained by a small tab at the bottom rear, that fits into a slot in the bottom rear of the slide's rather truncated recoil spring tunnel.

The Para P10.45 does not have a barrel bushing. The muzzle is fitted directly to the slide. The recoil spring plug has a flange at the rear to retain it. What doesn't show in the photo I posted is that the front has a sort of "saddle" that acts as the support for the lower arc of the muzzle.

The guide rod itself is also two parts. The inner part has a narrow shank with the wider head that you see in the photo you posted. Around that is a larger diameter sleeve, which retracts as the slide retracts. The outer spring fits over this sleeve; the inner spring runs inside it. The outer spring comes right off, just like s standard recoil spring. It could be easily replaced, but I believe Para didn't sell the outer spring as a part, they only sold the entire recoil assembly as a complete assembly. To service the inner spring, the rear end of the inner guide rod passes through the flange and is secured with a small snap ring. It could be removed ... but I would prefer not to try it.

Here's a photo of a Colt Defender, field stripped. Look familiar?

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And here's another view, taken from Steve Clark's e-zine review of a Para 3" LDA. In this photo you can see the little saddle at the front of the recoil spring plug.



Here's what it looks like with the slide retracted. The sleeve is pushed back by the slide along with the outer spring, leaving only the inner guide rod exposed.




From what I can deduce off the Internet, Wolff has the outer spring but nothing else. Sarco has the inner and outer springs, the flange, and the outer sleeve, but not the inner guide rod. Apparently the recoil assembly for a Colt Defender or a Springfield EMP will work. Brownells has the Colt assembly (minus the outer spring).

[1Sourdough]

Thanks for the added pictures, Hawkmoon. I see now the stop at the front of the guide rod was hidden by the sleeve and outer spring in the stripped picture, rather than having been unscrewed or removed somehow. Do the springs need replacing at frequent levels of rounds downrange? While I remember, years ago, discussions of the number of rounds a Government Model barrel could handle before needing replacing, the idea of the springs requiring replacement is new.

And the Defender is different than my (Series 80) OAPC. That's news as well.

[Hawkmoon]

From what I have seen on the Internet, the recoil spring/assembly replacement interval for 3-inch 1911s is the subject of considerable debate. Some sources recommend 500 rounds (which, incidentally, is also what many people recommend for the Colt Officers ACP). I have owned a Para Slim Hawg (which is the single stack equivalent of the P10) for more than ten years, but I still haven't put 500 rounds through it so I can't tell you how far beyond that it may go. It's one of those guns that gets carried much but shot infrequently.

I'm afraid I can't help you much on this question. I would say that I think you should assume you won't get 5,000+ rounds on a recoil spring as we expect on a Government size 1911.

[1Sourdough]

Well, today is 21 days, three weeks, since the payment for the P10 was sent Priority. USPS is still playing badminton with the envelope, mostly knocking it among the Jersey City, NJ, White Plains, NY, and New City, NY distribution centers. The seller finally figured out he sent me the wrong ZIP Code with his mailing address, so he and I have both contacted USPS a couple times with correct contact info. Now every two or three days a notice appears in the tracking history that USPS has discovered a problem with the piece of mail, and the facility is correcting it... But maybe they have to complete the game of badminton before the correction takes effect, eh? If I didn't want so much to get hands on the pistol, it'd be humorous. But that's a pretty huge IF!

[Hawkmoon]

Ouch!

[1Sourdough]

Yesterday, not quite six weeks after payment was sent, the pistol arrived at the local transfer in FFL. It took just under five weeks for the money order to reach the seller. I cleaned the pistol, and took it up to the nearest public range this morning to see if it likes me. It does! Despite the stumpy grip perceived recoil and muzzle rise are a little less than with the Officer's Model, and shooting the P10 was delightful. I never thought I'd see a .45 pistol which made the Officers Model seem like a big clunk but the P10 has done that! I'll include a picture of the two.

One thing caught my attention: The rear sight has been drifted a tiny bit to the right but the grouping is a little left of the bull's eye. Is there a known mechanical reason for such, which ought to be corrected rather than chasing sight adjustments, or shall I just move the sight a little further to the right and be done with it?


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[Norton]

How little is a little?
Really not a easy question. Under stress (duty gun/carry) most will RH will tend to shoot right, then how much.
If it were mine I would set it up for my eyes at bulls eye.
Nice find. Been looking for one also.
Enjoy,
Norton

[1Sourdough]

Hmm, at 10 or 15 yards the grouping was five or six inches left of point of aim. Finding this was a real delight. I might have mentioned above that in the early 2000s I had just bought the Oficer's Model, and when seeing the Para Ordnance pieces, didn't think it would be appropriate to go after another spendy purchase. Just recently got to thinking about the P-O , and after learning the company had been absorbed by Remington, saw this one on Gun Broker. It was too nice to pass by!