Arizona also has a concealed 'weapon" wording on the permit.
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Arizona also has a concealed 'weapon" wording on the permit.
IMO there's a reason why the Federal government isn't challenging state marijuana laws, and that is because by using marijuana legally under your state law, you are also violating Federal Law. And if you're a gun owner the Feds will now have another entire group of people to make into prohibited persons.
The federal government is not, at least for now, inclined to legalize pot, especially if they could use it to deny people their RKBA.
Ken
"I like Colts and will die that way"
"It seems to me that I have forgotten more than I remember"
It's still better to be legal if you cannot carry a firearm to be good with whatever you can use for defense and be able to carry the tool you can use whatever it is. I do agree it is about control, not about guns.
While I agree with you, the courts and ATF have chosen to see differently.
9th CIRCUIT decision: http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastor...1/14-15700.pdf
Details and an easier read: https://www.healthy-holistic-living....-buy-firearms/
Possession of a card means you cannot buy from an FFL, regardless of actual use.
The way the country was founded each state was its own country and the FedGov was supposed to be the servant of the states so the states could easily act in concert. Sadly, that system failed around 1861-1865. You are correct though, might makes right.
Last edited by SomeGuy; 28th August 2019 at 20:07.
This was a somewhat special case, because the FFL happened to know that the buyer (Wilson) had a medical marijuana card. Also, she didn't answer "No" to the question, she left it blank.
The BATFE letter applies only to FFLs. It said (as quoted in the court decision):
So for any holder of a medical marijuana card who [for whatever reason] does not possess or use any marijuana, they can legally answer "No" on question 11.e. If the FFL does not know that the buyer has a medical marijuana card, then [per the BATFE letter] the FFL has no reason to believe the buyer is a user of or is addicted to an unlawful substance, and the sale may proceed.[A]ny person who uses or is addicted to marijuana, regardless of whether his or her State has passed legislation authorizing marijuana use for medicinal purposes, is an unlawful user of or addicted to a controlled substance, and is prohibited by Federal law from possessing firearms or ammunition. Such persons should answer “yes” to question 11.e. on ATF Form 4473. . . and you may not transfer firearms or ammunition to them. Further, if you are aware that the potential transferee is in possession of a card authorizing the possession and use of marijuana under State law, then you have “reasonable cause to believe” that the person is an unlawful user of a controlled substance. As such, you may not transfer firearms or ammunition to the person, even if the person answered “no” to question 11.e. on ATF Form 4473.
If the buyer lied when answering "No" to question 11.e., that's the buyer's problem, not the FFL's problem. The buyer would be liable to arrest and prosecution for perjury.
Hawkmoon
On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside
Last edited by Hawkmoon; 28th August 2019 at 23:35.
What we're seeing is a consequence of too many law makers making too many laws being interpreted by too many regulators. How did we end up here?
(Ah, yes: regulations. I'll bet we here some moaning and groaning when the REAL ID deadline hits.)
Wrong. You are a felon as soon as you both use marijuana and possess firearms at the same time. The arrest and due process turns you from a felon into a convicted felon.
Think about your question for a moment. If someone robs a bank, is he a crook when he robs the bank, or not until he has been caught, arrested, charged, tried, and convicted?
Hawkmoon
On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside
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Rick McC. (20th December 2019)
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First I’m absolutely opposed to all pot or illicit drug use in any way, shape or form. I even hated Breaking Bad and couldn’t make it through the first few episodes.
You may be right and maybe we’re splitting legal hairs but using your example, assume I’m the LEO and I observe you rob a bank. In my eyes you’re a felon. My point of view. And from that view you actually are, and a bad guy. But the system doesn’t see you as a felon until due process occurs. So until that happens you can still buy guns, vote etc. So in reality (and fact) you are. But until a prosecutor initiates charges, you’re really technically not. Right? Or am I in the weeds in some way? Poor pun intended.
No, you are incorrect.
Under the applicable federal law, the act of possessing or using marijuana (or other controlled substances) is a felony offense. It is performing the act that makes you a felon, not an arrest and conviction.
Can you still possess a gun, or buy one, if you haven't been arrested and convicted? Yes, you can -- but you'll be breaking another federal law by doing so. Now you're a double felon. And, if you buy a gun while possessing or being a user of marijuana, you'll have to fill out a BATFE Form 4473, on which you'll have to state that you are not a user of or addicted to marijuana. If you check the "No" box in response to that question, you'll be committing perjury. Now you've gone from one felony (using marijuana) to three felonies (using marijuana, purchasing a firearm when you're a prohibited person, and perjury).
The fact that the FFL doesn't know you're a felon and you pass the NICS check because you haven't been convicted (yet) doesn't mean you're not a felon. It only means you haven't been caught yet. The same applies to robbing a bank. The act of robbing a bank is a felony because the laws of the various states say that robbing a bank is a felony. Those laws don't say you become a felon only if you are caught and convicted. You're a felon the moment you walk into the bank and hand the stick-up note to the teller.
As to firearms, the applicable federal law is 18 U.S. Code Section 922: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922
There you have it. Subparagraph (a)(6) makes it illegal to lie on the 4473. Paragraph (g) makes it illegal for any person who is a user of or who is addicted to any controlled substance to receive a firearm or ammunition that has been shipped or transported in interstate commerce. (Good luck finding a firearm or ammunition that hasn't been shipped or transported interstate.) The law doesn't say it's only illegal if you get caught.Originally Posted by 18 USC 922
Hawkmoon
On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside
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