Welcome to M1911.ORG
The M1911 Pistols Organization Forums Site


John needs your help
Please read this message.


Sponsors Panel
If you intend to buy something from the companies advertising above, or near the bottom of our pages, please use their banners in our sites. Whatever you buy from them, using those banners, gives us a small commission, which helps us keep these sites alive. You still pay the normal price, our commission comes from their profit, so you have nothing to lose, while we have something to gain. Your help is appreciated.
If you want to become a sponsor and see your banner in the above panel, click here to contact us.

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 39

Thread: Florida problem

THREAD CLOSED
This is an old thread. You can't post a reply in it. It is left here for historical reasons.Why don't you create a new thread instead?
  1. #21
    Join Date
    12th May 2013
    Posts
    5
    Posts liked by others
    1
    Arizona also has a concealed 'weapon" wording on the permit.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    14th February 2009
    Location
    Saint Augustine, FL
    Posts
    3,725
    Posts liked by others
    11
    IMO there's a reason why the Federal government isn't challenging state marijuana laws, and that is because by using marijuana legally under your state law, you are also violating Federal Law. And if you're a gun owner the Feds will now have another entire group of people to make into prohibited persons.
    The federal government is not, at least for now, inclined to legalize pot, especially if they could use it to deny people their RKBA.
    Ken
    "I like Colts and will die that way"
    "It seems to me that I have forgotten more than I remember"

  3. #23
    Join Date
    12th May 2013
    Posts
    5
    Posts liked by others
    1
    It's still better to be legal if you cannot carry a firearm to be good with whatever you can use for defense and be able to carry the tool you can use whatever it is. I do agree it is about control, not about guns.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    25th March 2009
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    6
    Posts liked by others
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkmoon View Post
    No. The federal law says "users" of marijuana are prohibited from buying or possessing firearms. If you have a card but never use or possess marijuana, you are not in violation of the federal law. On the other hand, legally if you are addicted to prescription painkillers you are disqualified from firearms possession under federal law, even if you have a prescription from a doctor.

    On the BATFE Form 4473, question 11.e. asks:
    While I agree with you, the courts and ATF have chosen to see differently.

    9th CIRCUIT decision: http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastor...1/14-15700.pdf
    Details and an easier read: https://www.healthy-holistic-living....-buy-firearms/

    Possession of a card means you cannot buy from an FFL, regardless of actual use.

    Quote Originally Posted by swmft View Post
    the laws in the "United" states are so disjointed as to be 54 separate countries(I think that is the correct number with territories) 55 with federal laws and many laws violate the bill of rights but might makes right
    The way the country was founded each state was its own country and the FedGov was supposed to be the servant of the states so the states could easily act in concert. Sadly, that system failed around 1861-1865. You are correct though, might makes right.
    Last edited by SomeGuy; 28th August 2019 at 20:07.


  5. #25
    Join Date
    2nd June 2004
    Location
    Terra
    Posts
    22,286
    Posts liked by others
    906
    Quote Originally Posted by SomeGuy View Post
    While I agree with you, the courts and ATF have chosen to see differently.

    9th CIRCUIT decision: http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastor...1/14-15700.pdf
    Details and an easier read: https://www.healthy-holistic-living....-buy-firearms/

    Possession of a card means you cannot buy from an FFL, regardless of actual use.



    The way the country was founded each state was its own country and the FedGov was supposed to be the servant of the states so the states could easily act in concert. Sadly, that system failed around 1861-1865. You are correct though, might makes right.
    This was a somewhat special case, because the FFL happened to know that the buyer (Wilson) had a medical marijuana card. Also, she didn't answer "No" to the question, she left it blank.

    The BATFE letter applies only to FFLs. It said (as quoted in the court decision):

    [A]ny person who uses or is addicted to marijuana, regardless of whether his or her State has passed legislation authorizing marijuana use for medicinal purposes, is an unlawful user of or addicted to a controlled substance, and is prohibited by Federal law from possessing firearms or ammunition. Such persons should answer “yes” to question 11.e. on ATF Form 4473. . . and you may not transfer firearms or ammunition to them. Further, if you are aware that the potential transferee is in possession of a card authorizing the possession and use of marijuana under State law, then you have “reasonable cause to believe” that the person is an unlawful user of a controlled substance. As such, you may not transfer firearms or ammunition to the person, even if the person answered “no” to question 11.e. on ATF Form 4473.
    So for any holder of a medical marijuana card who [for whatever reason] does not possess or use any marijuana, they can legally answer "No" on question 11.e. If the FFL does not know that the buyer has a medical marijuana card, then [per the BATFE letter] the FFL has no reason to believe the buyer is a user of or is addicted to an unlawful substance, and the sale may proceed.

    If the buyer lied when answering "No" to question 11.e., that's the buyer's problem, not the FFL's problem. The buyer would be liable to arrest and prosecution for perjury.
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside
    Last edited by Hawkmoon; 28th August 2019 at 23:35.


  6. #26
    Join Date
    1st February 2010
    Location
    Memphis, Tennessee
    Posts
    5
    Posts liked by others
    0
    What we're seeing is a consequence of too many law makers making too many laws being interpreted by too many regulators. How did we end up here?

    (Ah, yes: regulations. I'll bet we here some moaning and groaning when the REAL ID deadline hits.)

  7. #27
    Join Date
    1st July 2019
    Posts
    43
    Posts liked by others
    12
    Quote Originally Posted by rock185 View Post
    BFK, Unfortunately the Feds don't care what your doctor recommends. If you are using marijuana, you are a prohibited possessor. You're not just prohibited from buying more guns, you are prohibited from possessing any you already own...
    But I think you need to be technically charged first and go thru due process in order to be a felon right? Either way I wouldn’t risk it. But I’m wondering if until the fed vs state stuff works it’s way out, if they’ll go that extra step?

  8. #28
    Join Date
    2nd June 2004
    Location
    Terra
    Posts
    22,286
    Posts liked by others
    906
    Quote Originally Posted by AustinWiseguy View Post
    But I think you need to be technically charged first and go thru due process in order to be a felon right?
    Wrong. You are a felon as soon as you both use marijuana and possess firearms at the same time. The arrest and due process turns you from a felon into a convicted felon.

    Think about your question for a moment. If someone robs a bank, is he a crook when he robs the bank, or not until he has been caught, arrested, charged, tried, and convicted?
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside
    Likes (1) :
    Rick McC. (20th December 2019)


  9. #29
    Join Date
    1st July 2019
    Posts
    43
    Posts liked by others
    12
    First I’m absolutely opposed to all pot or illicit drug use in any way, shape or form. I even hated Breaking Bad and couldn’t make it through the first few episodes.

    You may be right and maybe we’re splitting legal hairs but using your example, assume I’m the LEO and I observe you rob a bank. In my eyes you’re a felon. My point of view. And from that view you actually are, and a bad guy. But the system doesn’t see you as a felon until due process occurs. So until that happens you can still buy guns, vote etc. So in reality (and fact) you are. But until a prosecutor initiates charges, you’re really technically not. Right? Or am I in the weeds in some way? Poor pun intended.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    2nd June 2004
    Location
    Terra
    Posts
    22,286
    Posts liked by others
    906
    Quote Originally Posted by AustinWiseguy View Post
    You may be right and maybe we’re splitting legal hairs but using your example, assume I’m the LEO and I observe you rob a bank. In my eyes you’re a felon. My point of view. And from that view you actually are, and a bad guy. But the system doesn’t see you as a felon until due process occurs. So until that happens you can still buy guns, vote etc. So in reality (and fact) you are. But until a prosecutor initiates charges, you’re really technically not. Right? Or am I in the weeds in some way? Poor pun intended.
    No, you are incorrect.

    Under the applicable federal law, the act of possessing or using marijuana (or other controlled substances) is a felony offense. It is performing the act that makes you a felon, not an arrest and conviction.

    Can you still possess a gun, or buy one, if you haven't been arrested and convicted? Yes, you can -- but you'll be breaking another federal law by doing so. Now you're a double felon. And, if you buy a gun while possessing or being a user of marijuana, you'll have to fill out a BATFE Form 4473, on which you'll have to state that you are not a user of or addicted to marijuana. If you check the "No" box in response to that question, you'll be committing perjury. Now you've gone from one felony (using marijuana) to three felonies (using marijuana, purchasing a firearm when you're a prohibited person, and perjury).

    The fact that the FFL doesn't know you're a felon and you pass the NICS check because you haven't been convicted (yet) doesn't mean you're not a felon. It only means you haven't been caught yet. The same applies to robbing a bank. The act of robbing a bank is a felony because the laws of the various states say that robbing a bank is a felony. Those laws don't say you become a felon only if you are caught and convicted. You're a felon the moment you walk into the bank and hand the stick-up note to the teller.

    As to firearms, the applicable federal law is 18 U.S. Code Section 922: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922

    Quote Originally Posted by 18 USC 922
    (a) It shall be unlawful—

    ...

    (6) for any person in connection with the acquisition or attempted acquisition of any firearm or ammunition from a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, knowingly to make any false or fictitious oral or written statement or to furnish or exhibit any false, fictitious, or misrepresented identification, intended or likely to deceive such importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector with respect to any fact material to the lawfulness of the sale or other disposition of such firearm or ammunition under the provisions of this chapter;

    ...

    (g) It shall be unlawful for any person—
    (1) who has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;
    (2) who is a fugitive from justice;
    (3) who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802));
    ...
    to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce, or possess in or affecting commerce, any firearm or ammunition; or to receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.
    There you have it. Subparagraph (a)(6) makes it illegal to lie on the 4473. Paragraph (g) makes it illegal for any person who is a user of or who is addicted to any controlled substance to receive a firearm or ammunition that has been shipped or transported in interstate commerce. (Good luck finding a firearm or ammunition that hasn't been shipped or transported interstate.) The law doesn't say it's only illegal if you get caught.
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  



Sponsors Panel
If you intend to buy something from Brownells, please use their banners above. Whatever you buy from them, gives us a small commission, which helps us keep these sites alive. You still pay the normal price, our commission comes from their profit, so you have nothing to lose, while we have something to gain. Your help is appreciated.
If you want to become a sponsor and see your banner in the above panel, click here to contact us.

Non-gun-related supporters.
Thank you for visiting our supporters.