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Thread: Early 1911?

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  1. #1
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    Early 1911?

    I just received my grandfather's 1911 from my father. The serial number (C3xxx) seems to date it back to 1913. It has a number of magazines and a pouch from 1919. Since my grandfather was an officer WWII, that may be how he acquired it? The weird part is that it has features of the 1911 and the 1911A1, so I'm really stumped as to its origins.

    Anyone have any thoughts?
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by craigii; 3rd August 2019 at 08:05.


  2. #2
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    Welcome to the forum.

    Photos too dark to see much but you are correct your Grandfather's pistol has some A1 parts and also refinished. The one magazine you show appears commercial.

  3. #3
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    Thanks. I'll try to take some new pictures today with some more detail.

  4. #4
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    Nice, its a post 1940 M1911A1. A1 has curved spring housing and beveled edges at trigger housing. Trigger has short pull and long beavertail. The thing that shows post 1940 is plastic grips. Before that checkered wood. The real dater is the serial #. It appears to be an Argentine which accounts for the C serial#. Also Colt's PT FA marking. Need photo of other side.

  5. #5
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    Not sure what finish these had.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by cliffhed View Post
    Nice, its a post 1940 M1911A1. A1 has curved spring housing and beveled edges at trigger housing. Trigger has short pull and long beavertail. The thing that shows post 1940 is plastic grips. Before that checkered wood. The real dater is the serial #. It appears to be an Argentine which accounts for the C serial#. Also Colt's PT FA marking. Need photo of other side.
    It is not an M1911A1, since that was the military designation and a 'C' prefix indicates that it was sold in the commercial market, not delivered to the U.S. military.

    Beyond that, it doesn't have the scallop cuts behind the trigger, so it's definitely pre-1927 manufacture. Craigii is correct, the serial number C3xxx dates it as 1913. The slide stop is the pre-1927 style, and it appears to me that the grip safety tang is also the shorter, pre-1927 style. The grips and mainspring housing have been replaced, and it looks like it has been refinished. Definitely not one of the Colt Argentinean contract, since that was in 1927 and the serial numbers in the Colt Argentinean contact did not begin with 'C'.
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside

  7. #7
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    Thanks for the information. I have attached pictures of the other side.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  8. #8
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    It appears to be an anomaly. There were C serial# made in Argentina, Brazil, France and even Russia pre "Military Firearms" by Phillip Peterson. It has beavertail of post 1924 as well as curved spring housing. Also a short pull trigger. I don't know what it is. I would be interested in reference to C serial numbers being commercial and how it was dated 1913. Not doubting anyone, just learning. You are correct as to it having no trigger cutouts. I have posted a comparison 1911 and 1911a1. Only reference material I have is
    military.
    M1911andM1911A1.jpg

  9. #9
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    noticed something else at left front trigger guard. casting mark maybe?

    x.png

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by cliffhed View Post
    It appears to be an anomaly. There were C serial# made in Argentina, Brazil, France and even Russia pre "Military Firearms" by Phillip Peterson. It has beavertail of post 1924 as well as curved spring housing. Also a short pull trigger. I don't know what it is. I would be interested in reference to C serial numbers being commercial and how it was dated 1913. Not doubting anyone, just learning. You are correct as to it having no trigger cutouts. I have posted a comparison 1911 and 1911a1.
    My source for the serial number when I posted is a small booklet I bought at a gun show many years ago, Colt's Dates of Manufacture by R.L. Wilson. The same information is available at http://sightm1911.com/1911Production.htm ... scroll down through the military and foreign production to get to the commercial numbers.

    Colt Commercial Production: Govt. Model: 1912 to 1981

    Model 1911
    Serial Numbers – Date – Number Made

    S/N C1 to C1899 – 1912 – 1899
    S/N C1900 to C5399 – 1913 – 3500
    The serial numbers of the "Hartford contract" Argentinean M1927 pistols was larger than the serial number in the right side photo, and was in the italicized style favored by the Argies. They put the serial number on the receiver, the slide, and the barrel hood.

    I don't think the pistol is an anomoly. I think it's a commercial 1913 pistol that, at some time in its history, had some parts replaced and was refinished. It's hardly the only pistol that happened to.
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside
    Last edited by Hawkmoon; 7th August 2019 at 10:38.


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