Welcome to M1911.ORG
The M1911 Pistols Organization Forums Site


Happy Independence Day
to all my American friends.


Sponsors Panel
If you intend to buy something from the companies advertising above, or near the bottom of our pages, please use their banners in our sites. Whatever you buy from them, using those banners, gives us a small commission, which helps us keep these sites alive. You still pay the normal price, our commission comes from their profit, so you have nothing to lose, while we have something to gain. Your help is appreciated.
If you want to become a sponsor and see your banner in the above panel, click here to contact us.

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 38

Thread: 1911BKOW issues

THREAD CLOSED
This is an old thread. You can't post a reply in it. It is left here for historical reasons.Why don't you create a new thread instead?
  1. #1
    Join Date
    3rd September 2018
    Location
    Modesto, Ca.
    Posts
    192
    Posts liked by others
    69

    1911BKOW issues

    Left side.jpgMy first post on this forum. I've been a 1911 user since buying my first one in 1976.

    I bought the Auto Ordnance because it is most similar to the Colts. New Colts can no longer be purchased in California, and used ones are going for prices far higher than new ones in the other states. So, I took a chance on the Auto Ordnance, and now am doubting the wisdom of that choice. I've noticed some issues with my Auto Ordnance 1911. I've taken it to the range 3 times and have a total of only 101 rounds through it. This week will be it's 4th trip to the gunsmith in the 2 months I've owned it. Experience has shown that 1911s tend to get better once "broken in", so I'm going to keep trying with this one for now.

    1) In just 101 rounds I've had 4 Failures To Chamber. These have taken place with magazines and handholds that work flawlessly in my Colt pistols.

    2) On one trip to the range the first round fired, then no further ones would, due to extremely light primer strikes. This was found to be a problem with the series 80 type firing pin block, which the gunsmith corrected.

    3) Even after a trigger job I'm getting widely varying trigger weights. I bought a digital trigger scale and weighed 20 dry-fires with my Colt Government Model, which has a trigger action i consider to be perfect (trigger job done by the same gunsmith 6 months ago). I then did the same with the 1911. I compared the variations in the trigger weights. The results confirmed that trigger pull is excessively inconsistent (wide variations).

    Is anybody else finding such frustrations? What did you do to get past it all? I try to be positive, remembering a time when Colt's quality control was seriously lacking and new Colts needed multiple trips to the gunsmith before working correctly.
    Last edited by MuyModesto; 3rd September 2018 at 16:20.


  2. #2
    Join Date
    2nd June 2004
    Location
    Terra
    Posts
    21,784
    Posts liked by others
    616
    1) What do you mean by failure to chamber? That's not a term I have encountered before. Usually, it's either "failure to feed," which means the round gets hung up before it enters the chamber and is stuck at an angle halfway out of the magazine ... or "failure to return to battery," which is when the new round is mostly in the chamber but the slide stops just a small fraction of an inch before being fully closed. Which of these describes your issue?

    2) Are we to understand that this has been corrected to your satisfaction?

    3) Numbers? Your wide variations may be someone else's normal (and vice versa).
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside

  3. #3
    Join Date
    3rd September 2018
    Location
    Modesto, Ca.
    Posts
    192
    Posts liked by others
    69
    1) I like your wording and will be adding the two you mentioned to my vocabulary. "Failure to feed" is what I have experienced. All 4 times the round was stuck at an angle.

    2) Yes, the light primer strike problem has been resolved.

    3) I'll clarify. The variations on the Government Model are small. In dry fire practice and at the range I don't notice the variations. If every gun I ever owned were that good I never would have sold any of them!! The variations on the Auto Ordnance are such that I'm always noticing them, both at dry-fire practice and at the range. This is distracting when trying to have nothing moving in my entire body except the muscles in my trigger finger. It would be great to be rid of the distraction so mental focus can be 100% on what I'm doing rather than on what's going on inside my gun's mechanism.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    2nd June 2004
    Location
    Terra
    Posts
    21,784
    Posts liked by others
    616
    1) There have been numerous discussions here in the past on failures to feed. Try searching the "Gunsmithing & Troubleshooting" discussion area for the term "failure to feed." If that doesn't produce some ideas for you to start, let us know and we'll try again.

    2) Okay, good.

    3) Respectfully, that doesn't clarify anything. You said you have a trigger pull scale. What are the numbers it reports for ten pulls? What are the numbers for ten pulls with the Colt?
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside

  5. #5
    Join Date
    3rd September 2018
    Location
    Modesto, Ca.
    Posts
    192
    Posts liked by others
    69
    Trigger Pull for Colt GM.jpgTrigger Pull for Auto Ordnance 1911 BOKW.jpg1) Thank you so much for directing me to the "Gunsmith & Troubleshooting" area. What a wealth of info I found. I'll be reading that as needed in the future. I noticed a ratio of comments 5-6 or so, to views, 1200 or so, so I'll respect this as a forum for posting only rarely while reading often.

    3) I attached images of specifics about the 20 pulls I did on each of the two pistols.
    Last edited by MuyModesto; 5th September 2018 at 11:23. Reason: photos didn't upload.


  6. #6
    Join Date
    15th September 2010
    Posts
    294
    Posts liked by others
    11
    I have an Auto Ordance .45 which I shoot frequently.I change the recoil spring every 2,500 rounds. Recently, I had some failures to feed with a relatively new recoil spring installed. I tried a new spring and the problem was solved. Maybe this could be your problem with your failure to feed? How is the pistols feed ramp? Is it polished and smooth? Also, some time ago I used some metal polish and polished the inside of the chamber and this helped to cut down on feed issues. Once broken in, my .45 has worked flawlessly.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    3rd September 2018
    Location
    Modesto, Ca.
    Posts
    192
    Posts liked by others
    69
    Thanks for the reply. I see you and numerous others suggesting recoil spring changes far more often than I had been doing (every 25 years). Do you suggest an interval for having all the springs in the gun replaced?

    From following the prior suggestion to check "gunsmith & Troubleshooting" on this website I found mention of weak magazine springs that matched exactly what I was seeing. Next I reviewed my notes. The failures to feed were all with magazines I've had 25-35 years and carried on-duty so they were fully loaded for months on end, and were all the last round, except for one which was next-to-last. Based on what I had read, and then found from my notes I ordered new magazine springs.

    I showed my gunsmith the semi-wadcutter loads I shoot. He suggested some work on the feed ramp to shape it more like the Colts.

    The gunsmith also noticed the disconnector was moving during the trigger pull. He said that'll be the first thing he checks when trying to determine why trigger pull is so inconsistent.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    15th September 2010
    Posts
    294
    Posts liked by others
    11
    From what I remember reading here at this site, the basic rule of thumb for spring replacement is as follows: Recoil spring 2,500 rounds. Firing pin 5,000 rounds. Sear spring 10,000 rounds. Mainspring 20,000 rounds. The rest as needed. If I remember correctly, if a spring is kept compressed for long periods of time, that alone may not wear it out. The wear is due to repeated flexing...as it would be when in use, some of the more informed at this site may correct me in regards to this. You mention shooting semi wadcutters thru this .45, for what it is worth and it may be true only for my .45s, both of them do not shoot semi wad cutters very well. I shoot Hornady 230 grain FMJ, Hunters Supply and Speer 230 grain lead roundnose bullets. I have found these to work very well in both my Auto Ordnance .45 1911s. I use several bullet manufacturers due to availability in my area, but all are roundnose. Be patient with this gun, when you work out the bugs, I am sure you will be very happy with it. I own both a Kahr Auto Ordnance 1911 .45 and one of the earlier West Hurely Auto Ordance 1911s. The West Hurley guns had a horrible reputation. I did not know this when I bought it, I was only a kid. After a few tweaks recommended by an old timer, ironically this gun became one of my most reliable!
    Likes (1) :
    MuyModesto (10th September 2018)


  9. #9
    Join Date
    2nd June 2004
    Location
    Terra
    Posts
    21,784
    Posts liked by others
    616
    Quote Originally Posted by MuyModesto View Post
    3) Even after a trigger job I'm getting widely varying trigger weights. I bought a digital trigger scale and weighed 20 dry-fires with my Colt Government Model, which has a trigger action i consider to be perfect (trigger job done by the same gunsmith 6 months ago). I then did the same with the 1911. I compared the variations in the trigger weights. The results confirmed that trigger pull is excessively inconsistent (wide variations).

    Is anybody else finding such frustrations? What did you do to get past it all? I try to be positive, remembering a time when Colt's quality control was seriously lacking and new Colts needed multiple trips to the gunsmith before working correctly.
    Respectfully, I think it's a bit unfair to compare a new, out-of-the-box, lower end pistol against a Colt that has received a professional trigger job and declare that the trigger pull on the budget pistol (which has not been worked on) has "excessive" variation. From your opening post, I expected to see numbers ranging from 7 pounds to 9 pounds of trigger pull. What your numbers show is a range from the high 4-pound to the mid-5-pound range. I ran your numbers -- using the average as the baseline you have a fluctuation of plus 9% to minus 7%, which is a total range of 16%. In my opinion, that's neither excessively inconsistent nor widely varying, not out of the ordinary for a new pistol that hasn't even been broken in yet, and certainly hasn't benefited from a trigger job.

    In fact, if you run the numbers on your Colt, those indicate a variance of plus 6% to minus 7%, for a total range of 13% -- and that's the gun that had a professional trigger job done on it.

    I don't use a digital trigger pull scale. First, I don't like tools that need batteries, because the battery is always dead when I need to measure something. I use a dial caliper and I use an RCBS analog trigger pull scale. More importantly, the problem with the digital trigger pull scale is that it reads to the fraction of an ounce. That's a degree of precision that's meaningless in the real world. I think my trigger finger is fairly well "sensitized" to 1911s, but I can't tell the difference between a good 4-1/2-pound trigger and a good 5-pound trigger. What's much more important than an ounce or three is creep and grit, and the scale doesn't measure those.

    Your A-O trigger will probably clean itself up by the time you have run 1,000 or so rounds through it, or just spend a couple of evenings dry firing it 100 times or so each session. If you want to help it along, jump over to our Home Page site (the link is at the top of the forum pages), scroll through the menu on the left side for "Technical Issues," and look in there for the article entitled "Poor Man's Trigger Job."
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside
    Likes (1) :
    MuyModesto (10th September 2018)

    Last edited by Hawkmoon; 10th September 2018 at 19:05. Reason: typo


  10. #10
    Join Date
    3rd September 2018
    Location
    Modesto, Ca.
    Posts
    192
    Posts liked by others
    69
    My thanks to "Hawkmoon" and to ".45s r best" for what you have contributed to this discussion. You have given valuable information for which I am grateful.

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  



Sponsors Panel
If you intend to buy something from Brownells, please use their banners above. Whatever you buy from them, gives us a small commission, which helps us keep these sites alive. You still pay the normal price, our commission comes from their profit, so you have nothing to lose, while we have something to gain. Your help is appreciated.
If you want to become a sponsor and see your banner in the above panel, click here to contact us.

Non-gun-related supporters.
Thank you for visiting our supporters.