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Thread: Slide, Barrel and lockup question (Apologies in advance)

  1. #51
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    15th September 2013
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    Orlando, FL
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    Early update. My friend found the issue. The slide stop hole on the frame is .002 too high And the slide is sitting low by the remaining .013. I know this isn't on me as I made no change to the bottom of the slide nor the rail height. Other good news, which is even better in my book, is he has a list of things I need to do before shooting. To me that reads like a report card of my work and that is exactly what I need to get better.
    My first question will be how does he know the slide stop hole is too high. It may be just a comparison to the frames he has/uses or there may be a spec. I thought I had measured the hole to the top of the frame rail. But I must have been mistaken.

    I'm meeting him tomorrow night so if there is any additional news I will update afterwards.

  2. #52
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    25th September 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frgood View Post
    My first question will be how does he know the slide stop hole is too high.
    If you're asking how he knew what the distance was supposed to be, remember that all the specs for the 1911 can be found in our Tech Issues section on the Army Ordnance blueprints. Recommend you get a complete and nicely printed set from Nicolaus Associates. But if you're asking what was used to make the measurement, one way is to jam the slide stop up in its hole and use a depth micrometer to measure from the frame top down to the pin and compare with the Specification. Another method would be to measure from the top of the frame down to the top of the slide stop pin hole using something like this homemade contraption:

    http://

    This tool also comes in handy for finding the distance between holes (at least their nearest or farthest surfaces) and is ideal for measuring the separation web between holes on a link. Find the hole diameter with a hole gauge or gauge pin. Your interchageable anvil micrometer might also do a pretty good job on the slide stop pin hole in the frame.

    Just out of curiosity (and mainly so I never waste my $ on one) who made that slide?
    When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind. [Lord Kelvin]
    Last edited by niemi24s; 4th November 2018 at 21:08.


  3. #53
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    15th September 2013
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    DaVinci Machining. http://davincimachining.com/

    Let's be clear. The frames and slides I have are some of his first runs. Prior to full time production. He now supplies Deep River Customs which is producing a beautiful competition gun.

    So please do not consider this an indictment. These are good folks producing some very nice stuff.

  4. #54
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    If (big if) that slide really is that far out of spec, the fact that it somehow got out of the shop is, IMHO, not a good sign. It should have been cut into little bitty pieces so nobody would ever try to build a gun using it.
    When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind. [Lord Kelvin]

  5. #55
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    Not to worry. But I do want to be very clear in that my case is very unique and I do not in any way want any negative connotations in regards to the shop. It is clear that all early issues have been resolved as evidenced by the number of production components delivered and mine remains a singular and unique case.

    Also, My skill is no basis for any judgement upon anyone or thing. Now let's revisit this in 20 years.

  6. #56
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    OK, I get your point about the manufacturer of your slide. 'Nuff said.

    But it's difficult for me not to overemphasize the importance of those Army Ordnance specifications to anyone working on 1911's. I think Kuhnhausen said it best:

    http://

    While there a lot of specs given in Kuhnhausen's books, specs are not given for all the parts. In addition the are a few errors because the drawings are simply renditions of the Ordnance drawings and not true copies of them. Those in the set from Nicolaus Associates (https://www.nicolausassociates.com/M1911.htm) are true copies of the latest Ordnance blueprints. Well worth the $30. But Nicolaus has only one blueprint for each 1911 part and some parts have changed over the years. So to get a complete spec history, some parts require more than one blueprint. F'rinstance, the Government Model barrel is best understood with three different blueprints, portions of which are shown below:

    http://

    So when someone proclaims the 1911 GM barrel lower lugs should be a certain way it may matter which one of the three is being talked about. In addition, there are the Ordnance specifications for the National Match barrel which can also be found in our Tech Issues section. And there were 3 (maybe 4) different versions of that barrel!

    I'm a fuddy-duddy when it comes to this sort of thing and will not rely on any ersatz rendition of an Ordnance blueprint - no matter how pretty it looks. Someone once ballyhooed his versions of the Ordnance blueprints on this site complete with one for the extractor showing the pre-tensioning bend in the wrong direction! The sad part was he couldn't be convinced his drawing was wrong!! Even when an image of the Ordnance drawing was posted!!!
    When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind. [Lord Kelvin]

  7. #57
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    I am taking your advise to heart and have ordered several manuals from the site you mentioned. I also reprinted JK's books spiral bound 8.5 X 11.5 for easier reading. In addition I just received a depth gauge (finally). I'm going to be busy for the week and will re-check the Gunsmith's work so that I have first hand understanding. Plus I'll improve my measuring ability.

    A quick glance at your picture still has me wondering if I did not cut the legs too short. Knowing that one is the weakest link makes it hard to accuse others. Ironically at work (IT developer) I had to spend years shaking the "I caused the problem" as the initial response. It seems we programmers have made self deprecation an art form that is naturally occurring.

  8. #58
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    25th September 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frgood View Post
    ...

    A quick glance at your picture still has me wondering if I did not cut the legs too short...
    Given your measurements, had you cut them any longer you would have had to go into negative link number territory or start making your own mini-links

    IT developer huh? Yah, been there, did that. Way, way, way back. No, further back than what you are thinking...

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frgood View Post
    A quick glance at your picture still has me wondering if I did not cut the legs too short.
    Based on what you've said about the slide and SS pin hole being out of spec (and too close too each other) it appears you didn't cut them too short. Not too short for this gun, that is. But in another gun with an in-spec frame and slide I think this barrel would have lots of up and down play at the chamber end when in battery. I think.
    When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind. [Lord Kelvin]

  10. #60
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    15th September 2013
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    I realize that this entire thread has been a bit of fits and starts. It is indicative of my thinking and learning process. I do make decisions based on information at hand. I will thenupdate my decision as new info comes in. Anyway. Here is the latest since I got the list of issues from the gunsmith.

    In regards to my barrel, etc., the slide stop hole is about .002 high from average, but I'm told this is within spec. The slide sits a little low, again within spec. The other list items were minor finishing strokes on surfaces unrelated to this post. Yesterday, I received a depth gauge so that I could get more reliable measurements.

    When I review (in my head) all my steps and took additional measurements, I think I have a good indication of what I did wrong.

    1. The barrel hood had light brushing on one side. Nothing a few strokes didn't clear up. Now the hood is clear and sure.
    2. When I checked the barrel upper lugs, I missed a step which might have caught what happened next.
    3. When measuring the barrel engagement, I took my first measurement with the barrel holder screwed in pretty hard.
    I actually cut the lugs and got a false reading as the barrel had some spring that I had not taken out completely.

    I am not sure the order of my missteps but the result is the barrel, when held tightly with the barrel holder is .010 shorter than when If I take a measurement when the barrel is locked up with the link.
    This was my clue as two readings (combined with the frame and slide) are pretty much what my barrel link differential between #0 and #3 link.

    I think I had not cleared the barrel upper lugs completely. This is clear when I review this thread. I did not take a proper reading of the barrel lockup. The depth gauge is giving me consistent readings with a higher degree of confidence.

    In other words, I messed up. I have to check and double check the barrel upper lugs and correct and springing before I move onto the lower lugs.

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