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Thread: reloading dies for dummy rounds

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by niemi24s View Post
    Thanks for the ID measurement. It agrees well with the average of my measurements of 0.4714" for six dies.

    You said your target case mouth OD for these dummies is 0.471". But ponder this. If the purpose of these dummies is to check how well a 1911 feeds, it'll feed a minimum OD round OK but may have problems feeding a round with a maximum SAAMI OD. This means the toughest feeding test will be with a round having a 0.473" OD at the case mouth. But such an OD is almost impossible to obtain with a jacketed bullet because most jacketed 45 Auto bullets are in the 0.450 to 0.4515 inch range. You could, however, pretty well achieve this by changing your target case mouth OD to 0.473" and leaving a little bit of flare.

    But that's just an idea I had.
    That's an interesting idea. Could even make a steel flaring insert to fit inside the die body.

    I'm probably ok with the factory ammo I'm using now, but I could very well need a larger dummy round for testing my "target" gun, which will be using something different.

    -

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by megafiddle View Post
    I never considered buying one because I had no intention of reloading.

    However, if there were other uses for it, I could be convinced. The bench mounted model looks even cheaper, and would be my preference.

    -
    Yes, the basic, open-front "Reloader" press is two bucks cheaper than the hand press. That would be my preference, as well, but I thought if you're not really interested in taking up reloading, the hand press is easier to just stick in a box and put on a shelf when not being used.
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside

  3. #53
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    Dial calipers are notoriously inaccurate for measuring hole sizes.
    Especially when you are looking for 1/1,000 in. of accuracy.
    AN adjustable hole gauge and either a caliper or micrometer are what is needed.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by brickeyee View Post
    Dial calipers are notoriously inaccurate for measuring hole sizes.
    Especially when you are looking for 1/1,000 in. of accuracy.
    AN adjustable hole gauge and either a caliper or micrometer are what is needed.
    If you are referring to the error introduced by the width of the jaw edge, the error is about .001" in this case.

    This is based on a hole diameter of .471" and a jaw edge width of .016".

    Also, an accuracy error of +/- .001" is typical for dial calipers, so that always has to be factored in.

    For comparative measurements, it's often possible to be accurate to the nearest .0005". That's about the limit of what one can read on the dial.

    (edited - math error)

    -
    Last edited by megafiddle; 13th April 2018 at 21:07.


  5. #55
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    [QUOTE=niemi24s;996068]If the brass you'll be using is new it shouldn't need to be resized to get a good grip on the bullet.


    Not necessarily.
    A piece of dowel will not add enough weight to matter and will prevent the set back that inevitably occurs with repeated cycling.

    Just keep in mind that hand cycling is a far milder process than actual operation of the gun when firing.

    A taper crimp does is not really all that much crimp but more as in 'UN-bell' the case that was flared to allow easier bullet entry on a manual press.
    Notice how straight that commercial load is.

    Production reloading machines are large and often now hydraulically driven.
    Older ones s operated strictly mechanically of a rotating weight to smooth their movement.

    As long as the equipment is well aligned there is nearly unlimited power available to push bullets into cases.

  6. #56
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    [QUOTE=brickeyee;997990]
    Quote Originally Posted by niemi24s View Post
    A piece of dowel will not add enough weight to matter and will prevent the set back that inevitably occurs with repeated cycling.
    Agreed. That's why I suggested putting a piece of wood dowel inside each dummy. I use dummy rounds for testing the cycling of guns I'm working on, so the rounds get chambered, ejected, and re-chambered a LOT of times. The dowel is the only way to prevent having the bullet gradually being driven down into the case.
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside

  7. #57
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    [QUOTE=brickeyee;997990]
    Quote Originally Posted by niemi24s View Post
    If the brass you'll be using is new it shouldn't need to be resized to get a good grip on the bullet.


    Not necessarily.
    A piece of dowel will not add enough weight to matter and will prevent the set back that inevitably occurs with repeated cycling.

    Just keep in mind that hand cycling is a far milder process than actual operation of the gun when firing.

    A taper crimp does is not really all that much crimp but more as in 'UN-bell' the case that was flared to allow easier bullet entry on a manual press.
    Notice how straight that commercial load is.

    Production reloading machines are large and often now hydraulically driven.
    Older ones s operated strictly mechanically of a rotating weight to smooth their movement.

    As long as the equipment is well aligned there is nearly unlimited power available to push bullets into cases.
    But please take notice that I did say to follow Hawkmoon's advice about the dowel back in Post #3.

    However, in preventing setback, the dowel could possible hide a feeding problem. That's because almost all factory ammunition suffers some setback during feeding, as shown below:



    And if the setback is great enough it can cause an FTRB - especially in a gun that is a marginal feeder to start with. So maybe test rounds used to check a gun's ability to feed real world ammunition should be tested with real world ammunition. And most of the real world ammunition I've tested does suffer some amount of bullet setback. Some a little bit. Others a whole lot.
    When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind. [Lord Kelvin]

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by niemi24s View Post
    And if the setback is great enough it can cause an FTRB - especially in a gun that is a marginal feeder to start with. So maybe test rounds used to check a gun's ability to feed real world ammunition should be tested with real world ammunition. And most of the real world ammunition I've tested does suffer some amount of bullet setback. Some a little bit. Others a whole lot.
    This sounds like you're saying that a gun that will only feed rounds after the bullet has been set back from the manufactured position is not defective. I hope that's not what you're saying.

    Using a dowel (or super glue, or epoxy, or whatever) to maintain the projectile in the loaded position, so as to maintain the correct cartridge overall length, so never cause a failure to feed or a failure to return to battery. If it does, there is something wrong with the pistol.
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkmoon View Post
    This sounds like you're saying that a gun that will only feed rounds after the bullet has been set back from the manufactured position is not defective.
    I might have worded it a bit awkwardly, but you are correct - that's most definitely not what I was saying.

    Any energy expended in setting the bullet back in its case is robbed from the slide. Rob too much and the slide may not have enough energy left to successfully chamber the round. On the other hand, if the bullet is prevented from getting pushed back in its case, no energy is robbed from the slide and the slide has the best chance of returning to battery.

    But you're spot on when saying there's something wrong with a 1911 that chokes when feeding a round that cannot suffer any setback.
    When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind. [Lord Kelvin]
    Last edited by niemi24s; 2nd October 2018 at 11:31.


  10. #60
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    Too bad you don't live around Fort Worth, Texas…. I would just make a couple dozen up and give them to you. Don't you know anyone around there that reloads?

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