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Thread: Trying to learn the name of a finish...

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  1. #1
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    Trying to learn the name of a finish...

    so that I can order the same.

    I recently was shown a 1911 ( I believe it was a Colt manufacturer) at a LGS that looked absolutely stunning. I do not have a picture so I will do my best to describe it. Hopefully, someon can give me the proper name so that I can get the same treatment on my CZs and 1911s.

    The slide was a matte black or midnight blue with high polish on the sides. On the frames the high polish continued. However, I might consider having mine with the same matte finish on the front and back strap.

    It was on of the most stunning pistols I had ever seen and it has inspired me to make some custom 1911 to give to my children as heirloom gifts.

    Thanks for reading this query and I appreciate anyone who can request this finish properly.

  2. #2
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    If you see a difference in the finish (matte or polished) on the same part, i.e. one for flats, one for curves, and the finish is dark, the answer is simple: blueing.

    Colt does this (i.e. the surface preparation) for both the slide and frame, others tend to bead-blast the frame before finishing, and leaving it all matte. As far as I'm aware, all Colts that are fully blued are done this way. Models with alloy frames need a different treatment for the frame, obviously.

    I believe Colt also does this for their hard-chromed Special Combat Government flagship models... and they look stunning -- if you like hard chrome.

    If you want this done on another gun, ask for a blue finish with polished flats and matte everything else. Expect to be told that it's easily done to the slide, but the frame costs more.

    It's difficult to get this effect with other finishes. It definitely can't be done with any 'spray & bake' finish, because surface prep (parkerizing or aluminum blasting) will eliminate any prior differences in sheen. Ion-bond may allow for some variation, but apparently it's a bit tricky (something to do with the fact it's applied with magnetism, the differences in magnetism along the part causing variations in the finish, if it's too polished to start with).
    Too many people miss the silver lining because they're expecting gold.
    M. Setter

  3. #3
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    Agree, you get this look with bluing of well prepared steel.
    After WWII, Colt introduced the finish scheme with slide and frame flats polished, the "curves" matte finished by fine abrasive blasting. The thumb safety, slide stop and the flat right hand end of the magazine catch were also polished.
    Stuff like that costs money, so you see a lot of guns now with matte controls and even with only the slide flats polished, the whole receiver matte.

    I don't know if you can get a shiny finish with one of the hard metallurgical treatments like Ion Bond, Melonite, or other nitride.

  4. #4
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    Thanks.
    So to be sure I've read your responses correctly

    I will have to check/confirm that the RIA 1911 G is steel. For the other 3 projects, I will be sure to order steel slides and frames (my plan is to learn and build those from parts - Obviously this will be a long time to completion).
    Once I've confirmed the frame and slide are steel, I will request the guns are Blued with the slide sides polished.

    It would seem that when finding a smith to perform the work, I must ensure that they know, and can, prepare the surface properly.

    Last question, Spyros mentioned a hard chrome surface. When I hear 'Chrome' I assumed a silver color finish. Is that assumption incorrect? I see reference to 'Hard Black Chrome'. Is this something that is successful when applied on guns?

    Despite my last question, I am of the mind that Bluing will provide that nice dark rich color that is not true black. I find that dark, dark blue to be a stunning effect. As a side note, I want to engrave a family monogram on the slides in case that has any impact on the order of subcontracting tasks.

    I am rather excited at the prospect of building a gun for each of my kids. I am sure my boys will enjoy and occasionally use them. My daughter will probably only appreciate the effort which is perfectly fine for me. Although a set of custom matching knoves would be fine by her. I'll stop now before I price myself all the way to the poor house.

  5. #5
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    Yes, unless otherwise specified, hard chrome is shiny. Here's the model I was referring to:

    Too many people miss the silver lining because they're expecting gold.
    M. Setter
    Likes (1) :
    Frgood (2nd February 2018)


  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frgood View Post
    I will have to check/confirm that the RIA 1911 G is steel.
    As far as I know, all Rock Island pistols are all steel. I don't know what an RIA 1911 G is, but if that was a typo and you meant "GI," then it is definitely all steel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frgood View Post
    It would seem that when finding a smith to perform the work, I must ensure that they know, and can, prepare the surface properly.
    You should also confirm that the 'smith can do hot salt bluing. Not all gunsmiths are set up to do it, or can do it well. You could also go to Brownells and buy their rust blue solution, and do it yourself. It requires time, but the result can be beautiful, and you will have done it yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frgood View Post
    Last question, Spyros mentioned a hard chrome surface. When I hear 'Chrome' I assumed a silver color finish. Is that assumption incorrect? I see reference to 'Hard Black Chrome'. Is this something that is successful when applied on guns?
    Black chrome is used on some firearms. It does not look like the authentic hot blue finish on Colt pistols.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frgood View Post
    Despite my last question, I am of the mind that Bluing will provide that nice dark rich color that is not true black. I find that dark, dark blue to be a stunning effect. As a side note, I want to engrave a family monogram on the slides in case that has any impact on the order of subcontracting tasks.
    Engraving should be done before bluing, or the engraving will cut through the finish to bare steel.
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside
    Last edited by Hawkmoon; 2nd February 2018 at 15:48.


  7. #7
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    As Hawkmoon mentioned, any engraving must be done before bluing, and possibly even before polishing. If the engraving leaves any burrs along the cut edges, you would want to remove those before the final polishing.

    Also with the engraving, you have a choice of leaving the recesses just as they were cut, or abrasive blasting over them to make the recesses matte. This would also be done before polishing. An example of something similar is the slide serrations on slides with polished flats.

    Rust blue can be a beautiful finish itself, but will produce a single, more satin like finish. A really flat matte or a high polish is not possible with rust blue.

    Colt (and others) have used various degrees of polish on their flats. These range from a mirror like finish to a finely sanded like finish. A lot of care has to be taken with either to avoid rounding off the line between the matte and polished areas. You want this line to be uniform and crisp. With the coarser sanded polish, the direction of the sanding also has to be straight and parallel to the slide. This also true on the frame. You don't want different sections sanded in different directions.

    You don't necessarily need to use the same shop for both surfacing and bluing. It would probably be worthwhile to inspect the abrasive blasting and polishing work first. As far as appearance is concerned, hot blue will only change the color from white steel to blue black. Every little scratch, rust spot, etc. will still be there. So what you have while the steel is still in the white, is what you will have after it is blued.

    You can polish the small parts yourself. I use 400 silicon carbide paper, with small sanding blocks if needed, to remove the original finish and smooth out the surface. I then polish it with the Dremel polishing buffs. These work really well and easily reach into areas like the slide stop serrations.

    -

  8. #8
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    Wow this is excellent advice and I plan to take and use all of it.

    I hope to show the results once complete but beware, it will be some time. My first 1911 will be the RIA where I will practice/learn fitting all internal frame parts.

    I then plan on building several less expensive slides and frames to learn practice slide and barrel fitting. After then I will work on the final finish gift ones.

  9. #9
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    As I mentioned previously in another post somewhere; Ford’s in Crystal River will be able to handle any of your firearm finishing requirements.

    What you’ve described is simply the amount of metal prep before the blueing process is applied.
    "Sights are for the unenlightened."

    Rick

    IDPA Certified Safety Officer

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick McC. View Post
    As I mentioned previously in another post somewhere; Ford’s in Crystal River will be able to handle any of your firearm finishing requirements.

    What you’ve described is simply the amount of metal prep before the blueing process is applied.
    I reached out to Ford's and had a great conversation. Once I get my 1911 back from Ortiz Custom Guns, I'm planning on sending it over for a test run. She understood immediately my desire and was very helpful. I can;t wait to see how it turns out.

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