Welcome to M1911.ORG
The M1911 Pistols Organization Forums Site


John needs your help
Please read this message.


Sponsors Panel
If you intend to buy something from the companies advertising above, or near the bottom of our pages, please use their banners in our sites. Whatever you buy from them, using those banners, gives us a small commission, which helps us keep these sites alive. You still pay the normal price, our commission comes from their profit, so you have nothing to lose, while we have something to gain. Your help is appreciated.
If you want to become a sponsor and see your banner in the above panel, click here to contact us.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 20 of 20

Thread: Colt Sistema slide question

THREAD CLOSED
This is an old thread. You can't post a reply in it. It is left here for historical reasons.Why don't you create a new thread instead?
  1. #11
    Join Date
    15th February 2006
    Posts
    1,002
    Posts liked by others
    3
    Now why didn't I think of that?

    Of course, Sistema means System. The name can't be Sistema, all by itself. The Argentines called it the "Colt System Model of 1927" so I guess that's what it is. Unless someone wants to rename it.
    - MacEntyre
    Per Ardua, Infensus, Sine Politico
    Haec manus inimica tyrannis

  2. #12
    Join Date
    2nd June 2004
    Location
    Terra
    Posts
    22,286
    Posts liked by others
    906
    The same factory also produced (and maybe still produces) clones of the Hi-Power. The Belgian models are FN Hi-Powers, the Argentinean pistols are FM Hi-Powers. So I suppose we could (and perhaps should) refer to them as "FM 1911s." But most people still call them Sistemas, and most people know what's being discussed. The problem is those who persist in arguing that they are Colts.

    They're not Colts. (Except for the first 10,000 pistols, the ones made in Hartford for Argentina. But those are rollmarked Colt, not Sist. or D.G.F.M. - (F.M.A.P) )
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside
    Last edited by Hawkmoon; 8th December 2018 at 21:52.


  3. #13
    Join Date
    15th February 2006
    Posts
    1,002
    Posts liked by others
    3
    Of course, you are correct!
    - MacEntyre
    Per Ardua, Infensus, Sine Politico
    Haec manus inimica tyrannis

  4. #14
    Join Date
    15th February 2006
    Posts
    1,002
    Posts liked by others
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkmoon View Post
    The problem is those who persist in arguing that they are Colts.
    What can be done?
    - MacEntyre
    Per Ardua, Infensus, Sine Politico
    Haec manus inimica tyrannis

  5. #15
    Join Date
    2nd June 2004
    Location
    Terra
    Posts
    22,286
    Posts liked by others
    906
    Quote Originally Posted by MacEntyre View Post
    What can be done?
    Correct people who insist they are Colts.
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside

  6. #16
    Join Date
    9th June 2004
    Location
    Alabama, US
    Posts
    2,199
    Posts liked by others
    115
    Conventional nomenclature is hard to change.
    At one time in Europe, any lever action was called a "Winchester" which must have annoyed Marlin.
    Any autopistol was called a "Browning" which must have annoyed FN.
    Any .22 was called a "Flobert", which must have annoyed everybody.

    These days, about any single action autopistol is called a "1911" which sure annoys me, especially when looking at a pocket pistol on a Star action.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    21st September 2008
    Posts
    9,964
    Posts liked by others
    209
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Watson View Post
    Any autopistol was called a "Browning" which must have annoyed FN.
    I think FN was happy to advertise its relationship with JMB, so it probably didn't annoy them too much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Watson View Post
    Any .22 was called a "Flobert", which must have annoyed everybody.
    A lot of people called their .22s 'Floberts' because rifled barrels weren't always allowed on such arms, whereas smoothbores (like actual Floberts) were legal. So .22s were all called/declared as Floberts, deliberately. Wink-wink.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Watson View Post
    These days, about any single action autopistol is called a "1911" which sure annoys me, especially when looking at a pocket pistol on a Star action.
    A while back we had a discussion (or fifteen) about how to define a 1911: some people would eschew doublestacks, and/or DA (or quasi-DA) variants, like ParaOrdnance's LDA, Colt Double Eagles, etc-etc. On the other extreme, a member pointed out that back in the early 20th century, before the 1911's patents lapsed (the last one went in 1935, i.e. when the BHP was launched--which wasn't a coincidence), any semi-auto that made use any of the four patents, found on the early M1911s and Colt Govt. Models, would be deemed to be a 1911. If we apply this logic today, even a Glock 17 would be considered to be a 1911 (tilting barrel, enclosed slide). The Beretta 92FS is probably the only modern service-caliber pistol that would not be a 1911!
    Too many people miss the silver lining because they're expecting gold.
    M. Setter

  8. #18
    Join Date
    15th February 2006
    Posts
    1,002
    Posts liked by others
    3
    That's a great point... Glock wouldn't exist without JMB's 1911 patents.

    However, just to keep us on topic, since we answered the heat treating question in the OP, and now that all the mods are present, what do you call these again?

    - MacEntyre
    Per Ardua, Infensus, Sine Politico
    Haec manus inimica tyrannis
    Last edited by MacEntyre; 9th December 2018 at 22:31.


  9. #19
    Join Date
    21st September 2008
    Posts
    9,964
    Posts liked by others
    209
    I would call them 'Argentine Sistemas', because I'd struggle to remember 'DGFM-FMAP', and even if I did, most people would struggle to figure out what I was going on about.

    I certainly wouldn't call them 'Argentine Colts', because there were indeed Colts, made in Hartford CT, for sale to Argentina, complete with Argentine service crests etc, legitimately being called 'Argentine Colts'. Unlike those guns, the guns in the previous post are made in Argentina. As has already been mentioned, 'Sistema' really refers to the caliber of the guns, not their name or type, but the name has stuck, for lack of a more accurate, USABLE name or moniker.

    Similarly, there are some nice single-action, single-stack Polish 9mm pistols that look a bit like 1911s, that are often called 'Polish Radoms', which is similarly wrong; 'Radom' is the name of the city they were made in, in Poland. Their proper name is 'Vis 35'... but who (other than Ian 'Gun Jesus' McCollum) would understand what you mean if you called them that?
    Too many people miss the silver lining because they're expecting gold.
    M. Setter

  10. #20
    Join Date
    15th February 2006
    Posts
    1,002
    Posts liked by others
    3
    reminds me of Crocodile Dundee. To paraphrase, "Tha's not a Colt. This is a Colt!"


    - MacEntyre
    Per Ardua, Infensus, Sine Politico
    Haec manus inimica tyrannis

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  



Sponsors Panel
If you intend to buy something from Brownells, please use their banners above. Whatever you buy from them, gives us a small commission, which helps us keep these sites alive. You still pay the normal price, our commission comes from their profit, so you have nothing to lose, while we have something to gain. Your help is appreciated.
If you want to become a sponsor and see your banner in the above panel, click here to contact us.

Non-gun-related supporters.
Thank you for visiting our supporters.