Iver Johnson .38 Super

[PolyKahr]

I just got a new Iver Johnson .38 Super 1911A1 for Christmas. Yes, I have a terrific wife. I notice that the manufacturer says not to use +P ammunition in the pistol, on pain of voiding the warranty. However, good luck finding ammunition that is NOT labeled +P. I ordered some Remington 130 gn .38 Super +P.

I have not shot it, but it appears to be very well made. Tolerances are tight, and no play side to side. Tomorrow I will take it down and clean and oil it. I will let you know how it goes at the range.

Wade

[11 Bravo]

Makes me wonder if the Owners Manual is specific to the .38 Super, or just a generic (covering all potential calibers) Manual. According to this article from Lucky Gunner the ".38 Super" was renamed the ".38 Super +P" in 1974.
https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/38-super/

[Hawkmoon]

As 11 Bravo suggests, that warning is a generic, lawyer-generated statement intended to protect the manufacturer from claims of having sold a defective firearm if someone wears one out or blows it up by constant use of higher than standard power ammunition.

In the case of the .38 Super round, all .38 Super today is marked +P. The reality is that "+P" is standard power for the .38 Super. How that came about is that the original cartridge from which the .38 Super was derived was the lower-pressure .38 ACP. When Colt introduced the pistol they called the "Super .38" they also introduced a new, higher-pressure loading. But the new loading used the exact same case as the original .38 ACP. In order to discourage use of the new, higher-pressure cartridge in older firearms that weren't designed for such high pressures, Colt gave the "new" round a different name. Ultimately, to get the point across, the industry started also labeling all .38 Super ammo as +P. The reality is that it would be more appropriate to refer to it as .38 ACP +P.

Go ahead and shoot all the factory .38 Super ammo you want. The factory stuff today generally isn't as hot as the original .38 Super ammo was anyway.

[PolyKahr]

Thanks, guys. I had ordered 3 boxes of Remington .38 Super +P before I read the manual (typical guy, right?) I also ordered some extra mags and some new reloading dies to be able to reload the Remington cases. I find Remington cases to be very sturdy in the .45 Auto so I figured they would be good for .38 Super.

Hawkmoon, thanks for reminding me about the old .38 ACP. I had read that somewhere, probably in the Hornady Reloading Manual, but had not remembered when the Wife was asking about it. 11 Bravo, I had also read the article over at Lucky Gunner, and forgotten about that as well. Thanks for reminding me.

Wade

[Hawkmoon]

To put this in perspective, Wikipedia lists the pressure for the .38 Super +P as 36,500 psi. 9mm Parabellum is 35,000 psi, .40 S&W is 35,000 psi, and 10mm is 37,500 psi.

I couldn't find any source for the pressure of the .38 ACP, but I did find one reference that said the 9mm Parabellum was a higher pressure round than the .38 ACP.

All of the above are far higher in pressure than the .45 ACP, which is 21,000 psi (according to SAAMI specs). The .38 Super is in the same range as the 9mm and .40 S&W, so I don't see any cause for concern.

[PolyKahr]

Hawk, I wasn't concerned. Your previous post convinced me. Interestingly, SAAMI's adoption of the +P designation doesn't affect manufacturers outside the US. Armscor makes .38 Super with no +P. Aguila, in Mexico also makes it with no +P. Interestingly, Mexican citizens may have guns in their home, but their weapons may not be of a military caliber. So, 1911 style pistols in .45 Auto are out because that has been used by a military, and 9 mm is out for the same reason, but .38 Super was never adopted by a military. As a result, .38 Super 1911s are popular in Mexico.

Scott Wagner, who is a deputy with the Licking County (Ohio) Sheriff's dept, and a writer for the USCCA apparently uses this weapon, loaded with +P as his duty weapon. You can find his article at https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/ive...per-automatic/

Locally, there is no one who carries .38 Super ammo. I have had to order it on line. Perhaps the next gun show will carry it. I started reloading again for the .45 Kimber, and it looks like I need to reload for this weapon as well in order to have a reliable supply of ammunition for it. I am looking to eventually get Sig .38 Super hollow points for carry purposes. I know that you use Barry's copper plated lead bullets, but I have opted for Winchester FMJ Flatnose for reloading. It is a 130 gn, as the original loading. Whenever I reload, I like to reproduce the feel of the cartridge i buy for carry purposes, not too lightly loaded.

Wade

[Hawkmoon]

For the best practice, I agree that the practice load should match the ballistic performance of the carry load. But ... I've read enough articles by respected attorneys that I won't carry reloads. I load my own practice ammo, but I only carry factory ammo.

[PolyKahr]

Agreed.
https://www.google.com/search?q=sig+...-IwsDjDGe7jfM:

Wade