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Thread: Does anyoine here remember the 9mm "SuperCooper"?

  1. #1
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    Does anyoine here remember the 9mm "SuperCooper"?

    Since I am mainly interested in loading data (but also the necessary gun smithing), I elected to post this inquiry here. Moderators should feel free to move it wherever they deem appropriate.

    I remember reading the article when I was a very junior shooter, and cannot find my copy of the G&A magazine in which it appeared. I'd like to re-read the article and examine the loading data (if any). I don't see it available anywhere on the net, so I'm hopeful that someone with a copy might PM me, so I can obtain the info I need/want.

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
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    Remember it? Cripes, I never even heard of it!!! And, to the forum , Kosh75287!
    When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind. [Lord Kelvin]

  3. #3
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    Possibly Jeff Cooper's "super nine"? https://forum.m1911.org/showthread.p...ot-(Yes-a-9mm)

  4. #4
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    I remember the article but do not have the issue and I sure don't remember detailed load data. No detail on the www that I can find.

    Megafittle's link had the article but it has fallen into the Photobucket black hole.

    If I wanted that type of performance, I would go with 9x23 Win in rifle anneal WW brass. A careful experimenter determined to use cheap rifle brass could look at data for 9x23 Win and 9x23 Super Comp.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Watson View Post
    Megafittle's link had the article but it has fallen into the Photobucket black hole.
    I'm running Firefox with the extension and I can see it.

    And what I see right away is that it isn't a 9mm, it's a .38 Super. The article refers to it as "Super Cooper 9mm Magnum."

    For srarters, he called for using cut-down .223 Remington brass rather than standard .38 Super brass. He had a 6-1/2-inch "high pressure" barrel made by Bar-Sto (no explanation of what made it a "high pressure" barrel).
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside
    Last edited by Hawkmoon; 16th October 2017 at 08:35.


  6. #6
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    That's a blast from the past! Cooper actually called it the Super 9, the wordsmiths at Guns & Ammo nicknamed it the Super Cooper. The super 38, and 9x23 are the closest modern iterations. I don't have my notes on the load data any more but it was a 9mm bullet (124 gr I think), in a cut down .223 case. I don't remember the powder charge, only that the velocities matched the .357 magnum.

    Try a google search. There's probably an archive of the old article, or some of Cooper's original "Commentary" notes.
    "The 1911 was the design, given by God to us through John M. Browning, that represents the epitome of what a killing tool needs to be. It was true in 1911 and it's true now." - Col. Robert Coates commanding, U.S. Marine Corp Special Operations Command Detachment 1 (DET 1)

  7. #7
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    IIRC back when the 9x23 was a wildcat caliber, its brass was cut-down .222/.223 brass, too.
    Too many people miss the silver lining because they're expecting gold.
    M. Setter

  8. #8
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    First 9x23 racegun brass I saw was by CP Elite. I sawed one in half to compare the web and wall thickness to other 9xXY brass. It was soft as butter. I do not know how it stood the pressures. Winchester 9x23 is rifle temper for use in the conventional Colt barrel. I think Starline 9x23 Comp is standard hardness and that has to be taken into consideration when loading.

    There were reportedly some raceguns set up as overloaded 9x23 Steyr and 9x23 Bergman Bayard/Largo, too; although I never saw one.
    I did see the occasional 9x21 used to find the same loophole in USPSA rule as it did in Italian law.

    I recall that the "Super Cooper" came about when Cooper and his friends failed to get .357 Magnum velocity out of overloaded .38 Super and turned to .223 brass.
    Now an ordinary guy like me might quail at the thought of putting .376" brass into a .389" chamber meant for .384" cases, but that did not deter Cooper & Co.

  9. #9
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    Here's a discussion from another forum:
    http://pistolsmith.com/9x23mm/12332-super-cooper.html

  10. #10
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    Kosh,
    This might help.
    Blackie

    http://www.scoutrifle.org/index.php?topic=6126.0

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