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Thread: Norinco 1911 and color case hardening??

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  1. #1
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    Norinco 1911 and color case hardening??

    Would a Norinco 1911 lend itself to color case hardening?? I ask because I've read different things about the allegedly harder steel in a Norinco. If so, does anyone have a recommendation for someone that does color case hardening on pistols? THANKS!

  2. #2
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    It's blueing that some allege Norincos have a problem with... the problem being that the nature of the steel makes it more likely for the parts to turn to a plum color, rather than blue. Again, this is an allegation... not sure it has been proven in any meaningful way... some/many Norinco extractors apparently came plum from the factory for this reason.

    Color-case hardening brings a multitude of color shades into the mix. Whether the above means that the part(s) would be colored differently than if you were working on, say, a Colt, I have no idea.

    I can't resist asking: what's the attraction of color-case hardening on a 1911? We're all accused of being old-fashioned for liking a 100+ year-old gun design, so I do realize there's some irony in me asking this question, but... why apply a 150+ year-old finish to it? Even back in 1911 this finish was considered decidedly 'old-hat' and unthinkable for use in the then-most modern gun around..!
    Too many people miss the silver lining because they're expecting gold.
    M. Setter
    Last edited by Spyros; 9th September 2017 at 10:07.


  3. #3
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    "Color case hardening" is a misnomer. The process is case hardening, and the mottled colors are just a by-product of the particular process used. It's not a finish.

    Norincos are already hardened, so more than likely any attempt to bury the frame and/or slide in hot charcoal will only degrade the factory hardening.
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside

  4. #4
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    "I can't resist asking: what's the attraction of color-case hardening on a 1911?" - I just love the look of color case hardening - Olympic Arms made some 1911s that were color case hardened (a Westerner and a Trail Boss) using the old school process, not just a surface coating, and I think that they are beautiful guns. Guess it's like anything else in life - beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and since I'm the one that be holding my Norinco, I think it'd look great with a color case hardened look.

    Thanks for the clarification on case hardening - in my situation, I'm really only interested in the look of the mottled colors - any additional hardening would be, for me, an added benefit - I will have to look into the issue of Norcs already being hardened - I'd never heard that before - how are they hardened?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by texas yankee View Post
    "I can't resist asking: what's the attraction of color-case hardening on a 1911?" - I just love the look of color case hardening - Olympic Arms made some 1911s that were color case hardened (a Westerner and a Trail Boss) using the old school process, not just a surface coating,
    But "color" case hardening is basically a surface treatment. It's not a coating, and the intent isn't (or wasn't, originally) the mottled colors, but the charcoal and bone case hardening process did not produce a piece that was uniform in hardness all the way through. The outer portion of the piece was hardened more than the deeper portions. That, too, wasn't entirely intentional, it's just the way the process works.

    Here's a link to Wikipedia's explanation. Note they describe it as a process for hardening the surface of an object. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Case-hardening

    I will have to look into the issue of Norcs already being hardened - I'd never heard that before - how are they hardened?
    One of the reasons gunsmiths hate working on Norincos as much as they like them is that the steel is so hard it's very hard on the machinist's cutters. I don't know for certain, but I imagine they are fully, uniformly hardened by heat treating in ovens.

    There is a chemical process that replicates the appearance of color case hardening. I believe Ruger uses (or used to) the chemical process on their single action revolvers. You might be able to find information about that process on-line. As for someone who can do real color case hardening, try Doug Turnbull.

    Here's a link that may get you started toward the look of color case finish: https://steelfxpatinas.com/color-cas...-effect-steel/
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside
    Last edited by Hawkmoon; 10th September 2017 at 20:43.


  6. #6
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    Thanks for the link to the chemical approach to color case hardening - I'm gonna have to look into how much it costs . . . .

  7. #7
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    You can create a case-color-like appearance with heat.
    I tried to "nitre blue" some parts in molten stump killer, could not get the thicker parts hot enough to turn black, but they did have a mottled, multi-colored surface that looked a lot like case-coloring.
    The effect was much more apparent on matte than polished parts.
    Colt never casehardened auto frames, but they did finish small parts that way; I think the thumb safety and grip safety on Vest Pocket .25s were casehardened.
    "A grip safety is just another excess moving part. I have never known one to prevent an accident, and moreover, it is difficult to postulate a circumstance in which it might." Jeff Cooper

  8. #8
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    I've been talking with a few companies that do CCH - I'm not a spokesman for any of these companies nor do I hold a financial interest in any of them - Turnbull returned my email with a call and the helpful guy told me that Turnbull does 1911 frames but not slides; Turnbull referred me to Tyler Gun Works - Tyler Gun Works does complete CCH with 1911s using a nitrite salts bath (I think) versus charcoal and bone - I'm not sure of the differences nor the end results, but I'm still talking with Tyler - getting a 1911 done with Tyler is not inexpensive - $450.

  9. #9
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    Salt bath is one of the methods for getting a traditional blued finish. Brownells sells the salts. "Bath" implies a liquid -- liquid would be uniform throughout, how would/could that produce the mottled effect of color case hardening?
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside

  10. #10
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    Nitrite? Maybe you could get colors with an aerated quench in water with additives.

    But are you sure it was "nitrite?"
    Pack hardening in bone charcoal is what we think of first, but there is another method, the British call "cyanide mottling." Hazardous to the operator's health, but forms a real hard case with colors formed in the quench.

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