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Thread: 45 Auto vs 45 Auto Rim brass?

  1. #1
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    45 Auto vs 45 Auto Rim brass?

    45 Auto vs Auto Rim DSC01227.jpg 45 Auto vs Auto Rim DSC01228.jpg

    The Auto Rim case is about .006" longer, about .004" narrower & a most different rim design. Its rim is also larger in dia.

    I gathered 10 of these at the range 2 days ago & culled them whilst inspecting other range brass, mostly once fired.

    What firearm were these manufactured for? Thanks.

    Wally

  2. #2
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    In WWI Colt et al couldn't make the 1911 fast enough, so the Army asked Colt and S&W to make DA revolvers chambered for .45 Auto. They obliged, and worked fine with .45 Auto ammunition, in half-moon clips. Both companies called these guns M1917 models. S&W even offered a reproduction of its gun in its Classic series, though I believe it's now discontinued.

    Anyway, for those who have such revolvers and don't wish to fiddle with moon or half-moon clips, Auto Rim brass is a good option... although IPSC competitors 'playing' in Revolver Class have repeatedly demonstrated that reloading a revolver that uses full-moon clips is easily faster than conventional revolver ammo and speedloaders.
    Too many people miss the silver lining because they're expecting gold.
    M. Setter

  3. #3
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    I don't like to fiddle with loose ammo or cases at the range, so I very rarely use Auto Rim in my .45 revolvers.
    I have an old 2nd Model Hand Ejector that was originally supplied to Great Britain during WWI, chambered in their .455 service cartridge, which served as the basis for the U.S. M1917. Mine has had a M1917 cylinder installed, so I can use plentiful .45 Auto brass for handloads.
    I also have a Model 22-4, which is a modern reproduction of 1950s service revolver, with a 4" barrel and the heavy underlug that had been deleted from the original Hand Ejector after the Brits decided it collected too much junk in the trenches.
    "A grip safety is just another excess moving part. I have never known one to prevent an accident, and moreover, it is difficult to postulate a circumstance in which it might." Jeff Cooper

  4. #4
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    Smith & Wesson developed the original half moon clips for the M1917 revolver so the extractor had something to push against for extraction of rimless cartridges. They had a tendency to bend after a few load/unload cycles and cause problems. Original design half moon clips also difficult to load/unload since cartridges inserted to the inside. Auto Rim cartridges eliminated those issues.

    Most modern moon clips much sturdier than the originals and load from the outside allowing the use of mooner/demooner tools. This has mostly eliminated the need for Auto Rim so rarely seen today.

  5. #5
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    The Auto rim is a wartime expedient.

    Better than a .38 but still a revolver.

    You will have to measure the water weight to determine capacity variation from .45 ACP.

    Outside dimensions do not take brass thickness and variation in internal web style into account.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by brickeyee View Post
    The Auto rim is a wartime expedient.
    ?
    The Auto Rim came out in 1920 or 1922 to give owners of surplus (and pilfered) 1917 revolvers something to shoot without clips.
    I had an old Handloading Digest article with AR loads that would curl your hair. We are kinder and gentler now.

  7. #7
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    Is that the article that advocates long-loading so you can match Elmer Keith's .44 Special loads in your M1917? I liked the idea of getting the bullet closer to the barrel, but yeah, the loads were toasty warm.
    "A grip safety is just another excess moving part. I have never known one to prevent an accident, and moreover, it is difficult to postulate a circumstance in which it might." Jeff Cooper

  8. #8
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    I use the Auto Rim brass in my Webley Mk VI revolver and it functions very well . I've also used the half moon clips with .45 auto brass but prefer the AR brass. I should mention the cylinder on the Webley has been shaved. The Webley is very accurate using .454 dia. bullets . If I use .451 bullets accuracy drops off. I only load the AR rounds to about 600 fps with 240 grain lead bullets.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Coulee View Post
    I use the Auto Rim brass in my Webley Mk VI revolver and it functions very well . I've also used the half moon clips with .45 auto brass but prefer the AR brass. I should mention the cylinder on the Webley has been shaved. The Webley is very accurate using .454 dia. bullets . If I use .451 bullets accuracy drops off. I only load the AR rounds to about 600 fps with 240 grain lead bullets.
    What is your Webley chambered for? Most were .455, were they not? That would explain why it likes .454" bullets better than .451" bullets.
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside

  10. #10
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    Starline is now making 45 colt short brass. It is the size of the ACP. That will work good in the Ruger 45 colt/acp revolver. They say to use ACP dies with an autorim crimper die. I guess it is basically the same as the autorim.
    Ron

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