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Thread: Possible Les Baer from SA's Custom???

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  1. #1
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    Possible Les Baer from SA's Custom???

    So I just picked up a 1989 SA 1911A1 and called in the serial # at SA to find out I have a Trophy Match 1911 in amazing condition. (Still on the way to me from NV) I expect to pick it up from my FFL tmrw and will post a pic then. Meanwhile I have some questions Im hoping someone on here can clarify with the limited info I have now below. SKU PI9601

    This pistol has "sort of" M1911 style sights. Not quite Novak but they are 3 dot
    It has an unreal brushed blue finish so its deff carbon steel not SS.
    It has an alum adjust able trigger
    Lowered ejection port
    Plain Double diamond walnut grips
    NM Serial (Obviously)
    It looks like the barrel is dipped maybe?? The hood is bright but the barrel is Blk
    Cross Canons behind the ejection port
    Springfield Armory Roll mark starts centered under port
    Arched & back strap with vertical grooves
    Mag release vertically grooved to match slide serrations
    generously radius'd arch (colt shoulder) front end of slide

    Why is this pistol so different than other Trophy 1911's from Springfield pre-90's
    Would this have been a Les pistol and the possibly SA's custom shop had variation there's little record of now?
    Although a keeper in my book Im out of pocket just over $400 for this pistol; apprx value if the barrel is original? Im told it is but I have put my hands on it yet.

    Thanks for the input. Its unfortunate SA didn't have much more info on the pistol but I cant imagine their necessity for records would meet any 1911 enthusiast's line up of questions
    Last edited by Gen.Custer; 23rd May 2016 at 18:38.


  2. #2
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    Welcome to the forum. Unfortunately I don't know when Les's tenure at SA was. When you receive this 1911 post some pics of it and perhaps someone will be able to assist you further.
    You are correct that the Trophy Match doesn't really fit the description of the one you have purchased. It'll be interesting to see how it works out.
    Lynnie, "Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal. "
    - Albert Camus
    Likes (2) :
    Gen.Custer (23rd May 2016)


  3. #3
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    Since the question is about a Springfield Armory pistol that may (or may not) have been assembled by Les Baer before the founding of his own company, this post does not belong in the Les Baer discussion area. It belongs in the Springfield Armory discussion area and will be moved there.
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside

  4. #4
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    I ended up pulling some more info from a CS rep at SA and as it turns out Les would not have had anything to do with any Trophy model's SA's since they are after all off the production line, with much more attention to fitment of course, but never the less not a part of the custom shop.
    Otherwise some SA people may be interested to know if not already privy, prior to 1991 there was no "real" records kept on the variations in TM *(Trophy Match not to be confused with the TRP of today) models so a Trophy A1 from an arbitrary 1996 run may be completely different in enhancements to one from 10 years prior. The determination on what stuck for future product lines was dictated by market appreciation arriving at the well known and loved TRP of today. So pre '90's you may have Bomar rear sights and a GI grip safety and mainspring housing while another with Combat sights and the same. Likeness's in builds referring to enhancements in current models may be deceiving if you expect to see Bomar rear sights, beaver tail safety, and aluminum adjustable trigger, beveled mag well, ect as seen on the RO's and most TRP's on a Trophy in the early days of SA's TM* 1911A1's. I should point out, this would not be the case with all production models from SA, the Mil-Spec, GI, Professional model, and other variations in the 1911 out of Geneseo would have had more stable roots appealing to the history of the pistol.

    This has been a fun ride so far and after picking up the pistol this evening I'll check back. I'm curious to identify, if possible, the barrel origins as they have a pretty colorful history in SA's early days as well. I cant imagine these nuances of this pistol and SA will become the things collectors look for years down the road. Mapping the novelties of each years test's over superb craftsmanship and rarity in the 1911 has been the corner stone of collecting and any one who can appreciate inevitably does. Argument sustained for why there are "1911 loving guys and gals".

    Anyone who wants to add details on some of the variation they've seen in the Trophy model over the years it would be greatly appreciated. Im particularity interested in understanding who was producing the match grade barrels used in the 1st decade or so if not SA.

  5. #5
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    I'm curious why you brought the TRP into this discussion. The TRP isn't a competition-grade or match-grade pistol. "TRP" is the acronym for "Tactical Response Pistol" -- it's a combat pistol, ot a match pistol.

  6. #6
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    Reiteration of the verbiage used by the SA rep I was on the phone with and verifiable on SA's website as using match grade parts. So your right Greywolf, it is a combat pistol, in all aspects affordable to the average consumer. Worth mentioning are 2 other models SA manufactures for Special Ops ready deployment (MEU-SOC and FBI Professional in Black T finish) that are top quality but I dont have the background at the moment to speak intelligently about them so I'll leave it on the table as the best pistols SA builds. The professional was 1 of 3 manufactures submissions to pass a 20,000 round flawless firing exhibition repeatedly scoring 1.5"'s at 25yrds without deviation

    (copied from Springfieldarmory.com)
    TRP™ level quality starts with the forged national match frame and slide. These are precision fit and then mated with a national match stainless steel barrel and bushing. The 20LPI checkering on the front strap, checkered mainspring housing and G10 grips will keep this gun in your hands when the sweat and adrenaline are flowing. The crisp 4.5 – 5lb trigger pull means you can more easily put shots on target when it matters most. 3 – dot tritium sights and an extended beveled magazine well remind you that the TRP™ was designed for use in high stress places – where the environment works against target acquisition, and mag swaps have to be lightning fast. The Armory Kote™ or Stainless Steel finish will protect your TRP™ so it’s ready for the next mission.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gen.Custer
    Reiteration of the verbiage used by the SA rep I was on the phone with and verifiable on SA's website as using match grade parts.
    "Match grade" is an advertising term of art that has no meaning, because there is no accepted industry standard for "match grade." Just about every 1911 manufacturer today calls their barrels or their triggers or their [___] "match grade." It's nothing more than a justification for charging a higher price.

    I'd like to see this discussion return to the pistol in the opening post. It seems to be moving too much toward advertising/marketing for Springfield Armory, and that's not what this forum site is for. There is no need to reproduce in detail any manufacturer's marketing hype in discussing a particular pistol.

    So, General Custer, have you figured out what your pistol is yet?
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside
    Last edited by Hawkmoon; 24th May 2016 at 17:06.


  8. #8
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    Thats disappointing Hawkmoon. As an engineer I had been totally sold on the idea more attention was paid to tighter tolerance in match grade fitment. I consider myself informed. As for marketing, being new to this or any forum I wasn't aware I was close to a line that would be considered marketing, I couldn't be less or would ever be interested in marketing. I do however appreciate a good story and digging up info. The rest is just my opinion, for the grain of salt its worth, and based on experiences with various firearms over the last 25 years. But I digress, No I have not. Unfortunately my FFL had closed early before I made it and I'm still hoping someone may catch this thread and help me unravel and understand this pistols beginnings and why. The why part was helped quite a bit this morning.

  9. #9
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    Well overall I'm pretty happy, blueing is immaculate. The trigger break feels identical to another 1911 I own that is from a very respected maker and a costly investment. I suppose I'll leave it at that to avoid sounding as if Im advertising. Although few threads I read do not, I can see the causion. Take down revealed a home trigger job but nothing serious, just simple polishing. I've got some pics as promised but given the response to the post linking them isn't worth the trouble. If there's a direct upload missing I'll go ahead and a few up. Hoping to get a fist few hundred rounds down range tmrw but I'm running 3 other poly frame-semi's and an old model 94 so it may be much less.

  10. #10
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    Don't worry, pride of ownership isn't advertizing..!

    I agree with Hawk on 'Match Grade' parts. Whoever came up with the term deliberately chose a name that might be confused with 'National Match', which is an actual term, referring to actual parts with specific blueprints; mainly barrels, but barrel bushings and even slides were once available with this moniker -- available to the military parts' supply system, that is, not in the market.

    This isn't to say that a 'match grade' pistol isn't any good. I would expect it to be better made than 'non-match grade' pistols made by that specific company, at that time. You might buy a 'plain' 1911 from a middle of the road maker and find it's reliable and a tack-driver, or an expensive 'premium/match/signature' model than only likes 1-2 brands of ammo and needs tweaking to be reliable.

    If your gun looks, smells, works and shoots to your liking, congratulations, you have a winner. It's as simple as that.

    Now... can we have some pictures..?
    Too many people miss the silver lining because they're expecting gold.
    M. Setter

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