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Thread: Bullseye match loads??

  1. #11
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    The last thing a .45 needs is 18-22BHN "hard" cast bullets. 7-10 BHN is near perfect and the current soft 12-15 BHN is still better than "hard" cast.
    I have never heard of a plated bullet giving match level accuracy, other than some claims about Gold Dots.
    Of course, one issue is if the gun you buy is capable of match grade accuracy.
    I would say the areas for accuracy are: shooter, gun, trigger, load--in that order.
    NRA Life Member
    Last edited by noylj; 14th October 2016 at 01:59.


  2. #12
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    Hard cast and Bullseye loads do not go together very well.

    Bullseye loads are low pressure.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkmoon View Post
    Those who like semi-wadcutters but who don't cast (and don't wish to start) can get either hard-cast or plated semi-wadcutters from Berry's Manufacturing.

    In plated (for .45 ACP) they offer a 200-grain semi-wadcutter. I've used that one, and I like it (but I don't compete in bullseye, so I can't attest to competition-grade accuracy/precision).

    In hard-cast they again offer a 200-grain semi-wadcutter. I haven't tried that one, but it appears to be about the same profile as some commercial reloaded LSWC ammo I bought a few years ago.

    https://www.berrysmfg.com/
    Hard cast is not desired in Bullseye rounds.

    Swaged lead works very well at the low velocity used.

  4. #14
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    No reason to use hard cast bullets in .45 ACP Bullseye loads.

    The pressures are NOT that high.

    Swaged bullets (they are very close to 100% lead) are all you need.

  5. #15
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    Again, please feel free to contact ANY swage bullet manufacturer. They are not using pure lead--they are using what, to us old folks, is really a rather hard alloy and more than hard enough for most handguns.
    I use the Hornady swaged Cowboy 140gn bullet in my .38 Supers at rather hot loadings without any leading--though I would agree that the wax-emulsion lube probably can't take much more than that.
    Hornady uses 94/6 alloy and others use the same alloy as most casters of "soft" bullets: 92/6/2.
    They can swage copper, so they have no problem swaging lead alloys of ANY composition.
    Please, if you don't believe me, contact them.
    NRA Life Member

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by brickeyee View Post
    Hard cast and Bullseye loads do not go together very well.

    Bullseye loads are low pressure.
    Then don't buy Berry's bullets, because their lead bullets are hard cast. They only have one grade, and for their 200-gr LSWC they list the Brinell hardness as 20.
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside
    Last edited by Hawkmoon; 1st February 2017 at 12:24.


  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by brickeyee View Post
    No reason to use hard cast bullets in .45 ACP Bullseye loads.
    On the other hand, I see no reason NOT to use them. Bullets that are too soft can lead to problems.
    Swaged bullets (they are very close to 100% lead) are all you need.
    Some time ago, I got some Speer swaged 200 grain SWC's and they were a source of some difficulty at the range. After testing their hardness the source of the problem was clear.

    At HBN 6.9 they were too soft to stretch a good case enough to create the tension needed for a good grip on the bullet. That resulted in these things:

    • In good thick brass these super-soft bullets were not stretching the case. Instead, the case was reducing the diameter of these soft bullets during seating - as much as 0.0028" in good thick Winchester brass and about 0.001" in weak R-P (not RP) brass. So instead of shooting a 0.452" OD bullet, 0.449 to 0.451" OD bullets were going down the barrel and accuracy suffered. Leading also increased because of gas cutting on a bullet too small to fill the grooves.

    • Soft bullets see an increase in bullet setback due to the poor case grip on the bullet - especially when fed as the first couple of rounds out of a full magazine. This, coupled with an increased natural nosedive under those conditions would often see the bullet stuck firmly on the lower part of the feed ramp. The 1911 needs a firmly held bullet so it can glance up and off of the feed ramp on its way into the chamber and not bleed off excessive energy from the slide.

    • Coupled with setback due to soft bullets, the amount of setback becomes more variable - decreasing as the magazine empties. This is because as the magazine empties, the amount of nosediving decreases. Hard lead bullets (when properly loaded) suffer very little setback when fed in a 1911 because they do a good job of stretching the case when seated. This means the range of their seating depth reduction during feeding is inherently smaller. On the other hand, because soft bullets do a poor job of creating case tension their range of seating depths after being fed is inherently greater. Most handloaders take take great care in loading their ammunition with a suitable and consistent COAL/seating depth. They assume that COAL remains the same up until the firing pin hits the primer. Bullets that are too soft can upset all that.

    Regards
    When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind. [Lord Kelvin]
    Last edited by niemi24s; 1st February 2017 at 15:33.


  8. #18
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    Interesting discussion.

  9. #19
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    Here's one of those soft Speer bullets that was too small to fill the grooves showing the evidence of gas cutting:



    Regards
    When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind. [Lord Kelvin]

  10. #20
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    .0014" makes a bid difference!

    Actually makes me appreciate how close necessary tolerances are adhered to in factory ammo to work as well as it does in so many different firearms, calibers and applications.

    I had a dozen soft lead rounds for a .45 Colt I used up this fall. I don't remember buying them but by round 6 they were flying all over. I thought my sights had been knocked crazy but I checked the barrel and the grooves were filled with lead.
    Last edited by Tawadc95; 3rd February 2017 at 22:08.


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