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Thread: Can a large Rifle primer be used safely in a large pistol

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  1. #21
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    Can you post large rifle v large pistol dimensions???
    Johnny

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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pappy View Post
    Can you post large rifle v large pistol dimensions???
    The dimensions on primers and the primer pockets are not absolute. There are tolerances. Although the small pistol and small rifle are exactly the same with respect to their min and max height / depth and diameter, the large pistol and large rifle are slightly different, but they overlap, so it's quite possible that you could have a primer that would work in both pistols and rifles.

    http://ballistictools.com/articles/primer-pocket-depth-and-diameter.php

    Primer Pocket Dimensions and Tolerances
    Pocket Type Depth Min Depth Max Diameter Min Diameter Max
    Small Rifle/Pistol 0.1170 0.1230 0.1730 0.1745
    Large Rifle 0.1250 0.1320 0.2085 0.2100
    Large Pistol 0.1170 0.1230 0.2085 0.2100

    Primer dimensions and tolerances
    Primer Type Height Min Height Max Diameter Min Diameter Max
    Small Rifle/Pistol 0.1150 0.1250 0.1745 0.1765
    Large Rifle 0.1230 0.1330 0.2105 0.2130
    Large Pistol 0.1150 0.1250 0.2100 0.2120

    Wow... I'm actually surprised that table cut and pasted from that web page (mostly) correctly...
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    Pappy (11th October 2015)

    Last edited by NavyVet1959; 10th October 2015 at 20:51.


  3. #23
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    Thank you, but I'll stick to the correct primer for the cartridge. The only exception I have is, I could not find, at the time, small pistol primers for my .357 and had to use small rifle. Pressures seemed a tad higher,but since I shoot them in my Ruger BH, there is plenty of steel around the chambers.Extraction is easy.
    Johnny

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    Last edited by Pappy; 11th October 2015 at 10:32.


  4. #24
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    Based on the numbers in the table posted by NavyVet1959, the minimum priimer pocket depth for a large pistol case is 0.1170". The maximum primer height for large pistol is 0.1250". This creates the potential for a primer to be 0.008" high and still in spec.

    If we substitute a large rifle primer, the maximum height jumps to 0.1330". We're still using pistol brass, so the pocket dimension remains the same. This combination could result in a primer that's 0.016" high when fully seated -- that's twice as far above the case head as the maximum for an in-spec large pistol primer.

    Of course, it's unlikely that you would encounter maximum height primers and minimum depth pockets, but both are within spec, so it is possible. It doesn't seem like a good idea. I don't like the idea of the primer being high at all.
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkmoon View Post
    . I don't like the idea of the primer being high at all.
    Esp. in autoloaders where the bolt/slide have to push/ram the round home. I'm thinking of out-of-battery ka-boom....
    Johnny

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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pappy View Post
    Thank you, but I'll stick to the correct primer for the cartridge. The only exception I have is, I could not find, at the time, small pistol primers for my .357 and had to use small rifle. Pressures seemed a tad higher,but since I shoot them in my Ruger BH, there is plenty of steel around the chambers.Extraction is easy.
    I don't think there's an issue loading small rifle primers; Sierra load data uses WSR primers for the 38Super and Vihtavhuori 357mag uses small rifle primers. I experimented with the Sierra load data and didn't see any difference in chronographed velocities.
    NRA Life Member since '67

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    Napoleon
    Likes (1) :
    Pappy (13th October 2015)


  7. #27
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    May have misfires due to stronger primer cup on rifle calibres. Made for harder hit from firing pin and higher back pressure,,

  8. #28
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    This from a few months ago in Post #19...
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911Tuner View Post
    Large rifle primers won't seat in large pistol primer pockets.
    ...sums it up best. For those who claim to have done it with some success, that success was probably based on a combination of tolerance stacking and/or brute force. The following drawing is based on the average specs given back in Post #22 and may help explain that statement:



    In order to get this average large rifle primer (LRP) seated 0.004" below flush, its anvil must necessarily be pushed up into the cup a distance of about 0.012". However, measurements taken on a disassembled CCI 200 LRP indicate the tip of its anvil is only about 0.010" below the inner surface of the cup prior to loading. This means that the 0.037" thick anvil must deform in the seating process and also that the anvil will likely get pressed much too far into the priming compound pellet - much more than needed to merely sensitize it.

    Compare this with the 0.004" that the average large pistol primer (LPP) anvil (the tip of which is about 0.009" below the cup) gets pushed up into the priming compound pellet when properly seated.

    Even though I've never even tried to seat a LRP in a LPP pocket, my conclusion from all this is that it is neither safe nor reliable. Information from Lyman (Pistol & Revolver Handbook, page 49) states that primers may become too sensitive if seated too deeply. Seating too deep can also crack the priming compound pellet and lead to a misfire.

    Regards
    When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind. [Lord Kelvin]
    Likes (1) :
    Pappy (19th October 2015)

    Last edited by niemi24s; 17th October 2015 at 18:24.


  9. #29
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    99.9% chance I wouldn't do it for all the reasons already posted on this thread.

  10. #30
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    One of the things I've heard for years is that some primers are softer than others and therefore easier to detonate (conversely, some are harder and more difficult to detonate). After measuring the cup thicknesses of the CCI large pistol and rifle primers (and finding the rifle primers have 50% thicker cups) I've a hunch primer cups may all be nearly equally hard (as in Brinell hardness) but some are just thicker and therefore harder to detonate. May find out for sure if I find the time to disassemble more primers and figure out a way measure their Brinell hardness.

    Note that the primer heights given in Posts #20 and #22 differ because the first is the height of only the cup - the second is the total height which includes the amount the anvil legs protrude beyond the cup edge.

    Information published by Lyman (page 49, Pistol & Revolver Handbook) states that primers that are too long for the pocket will buckle when seated a tad below flush and this will lead to combustion gas leakage and breech face erosion. Much other information about primers from CCI can be found in The Pistol Shooter's Treasury published by Gil Hebard.
    When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind. [Lord Kelvin]
    Last edited by niemi24s; 20th October 2015 at 11:16.


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