Kimber II owners please read

**ArmedsouthernEr** · 25th January 2006, 21:09

Can you remove This schwarts thingy?

If so, will it make the gun unsafe due to the desighn of the gun with the schwarts safty in mind?

How do you remove the safty if it is possible?

**SharkZF6** · 26th January 2006, 05:42

Originally Posted by ArmedsouthernEr

Can you remove This schwarts thingy?

If so, will it make the gun unsafe due to the desighn of the gun with the schwarts safty in mind?

How do you remove the safty if it is possible?

Yes, it's very easy to remove. Next time you detail strip/clean, you'll remove the push rod when you take the sear pin, sear, and disconnecter out. The push rod is the small part that looks like the letter "b" that goes up through the frame on the right side of the sear/disconnecter assembly. What's important is, the push rod also acts as a spacer between the sear and the right side of the frame so it must be re-installed. Therefore you must grind the top part of it off a couple of mm so it wont protrude through the hole like it does normally when the grip safety is engaged, that's what pushes on the firing pin block. Also, you must remove the rear sight to get the firing pin block and spring out, otherwise your gun will not fire. If done correctly, you'll end up with no firing pin block, a hole in the underside of the slide where the FP block currently sticks through, and a push rod that's too short so it won't potentially damage the back or underside of the slide as described in my original post.

Removing it will not damage the gun in any way - if done correctly. As for safety, that's a hot topic in and of itself. As pointed out previously, the idea of the Schwartz is to prevent unintentional discharge in the event the gun is dropped - especially muzzle end down. This potential problem exists because the gun uses an inertial firing pin. I believe extensive research has shown that this is really not likely with a gun in good working order with a good firing pin spring. I'll leave it at that cause I don't want this thread to turn into a debate on safety mechanisms. The intention of this thread is to provide information.

Here's a very good link to show how to detail strip your Kimber II:
Kerensky.net

**SMMAssociates** · 3rd February 2006, 03:16

Nobody mentioned it, but removing the Schwartz Safety from a carry gun may be a bad idea.

(Putting on Mas Ayoob paranoia hat....)

It's probably not a good idea to remove a manufacturer's safety device from a firearm that you would normally carry. In the event you have to use it, you'll probably end up in Civil Court, where the other side will try to make you out as some kind of horned devil.

Never change a carry gun in ways that can't be fairly clearly declared as ways to improve the safety of the gun. Better grips, sights, trigger, etc., because they improve your control. Don't say "accuracy" either....

Even though the Schwartz Safety is an abomination, the Civil Court may find it unacceptable that you've removed a Safety device. Just 'cause it's failure may get you killed, or won't let you stop the BG, doesn't matter....

I'm told you can stick a non-Series-80 Colt firing pin in the Series II slide and the whole problem goes away. However, I'd have concerns about the Schwartz hardware rubbing on the pin and affecting the lock time.

(The Colt system is driven by a lever, not a pin, connected to the Sear. This can mess up the trigger a bit, but all of the parts are somewhat large, and unlikely to be damaged in normal handling. I know about the problem and still managed to almost trash the Schwartz pin on a buddy's Series II.... Both systems are courtesy of lawyers and politicians....)

I'm also concerned that the "block" in the Schwartz system is operated from "off-center", which means that crud in the slide could interfere more easily than the Colt setup. The pin itself is awfully tiny, too, although that may not be an issue. More important is that it's not sprung, so it won't get out of the way if it gets raised.

BTW, Para also uses the Colt-style firing pin safety. Para doesn't recommend removing it at all. Removing the plunger and welding a cap over the hole in the slide may be the only way to do it in their LDA models. Dunno about the SA models. You can't take the parts out of the frame - they're used for other things....

Regards,

**warmrain** · 3rd February 2006, 12:07

Interestingly, in my printed manuals that came with my two NIB Kimbers and in the downloadable manual, the warning about disassembling while holding the grip safety is not mentioned in the step-by-step disassembly instructions. It is mentioned in the step-by-step Alternate disassembly instructions and in the Series II model information (which appears just before the "normal" disassembly instructions).

**b1bendt** · 10th February 2006, 10:09

Thank's for the reminder SHARKZF6. I will have to be more careful when I clean my Kimber to avoid damage when reassembling.

**PWhite1** · 13th February 2006, 19:13

I've had the same trouble with my Raptor. Sometimes it's a real pain to get it back together again

**wkueffer** · 1st March 2006, 03:25

I just got a Custom TLE II, my first experience with a gun, and I've taken disassembled it twice without a hitch, so I don't think that it can be that big of a deal. I doubt it is worth removing a safety feature.

It's good to know that I must avoid activating the grip safety when removing the slide since I seemed to have overlooked that detail during its cleaning. Thanks for the warning!

Are there any other warnings I should be aware of as a new owner?

**warmrain** · 1st March 2006, 15:30

No grip safety activation when removing or replacing the slide, or course... If you have an alloy frame avoid CMC magazines and others with a folded follower (some Kimber magazines - they usu. will have the CMC shooting star logo on the follower).

If it is an Ultra (3") the Alternate takedown method described in the manual and detailed in a sticky in the Kimber forum is much easier than the primary takedown method.

If it's an alloy frame it's normal to make some metal during breakin.

Enjoy!

**BGregory** · 1st March 2006, 18:23

Open mouth - insert foot

I'm leaving the below to show why you shouldn't believe everything you read on the 'net.

Old age has come and done some bad things to my brain.

Anyhow - Swartz's original safety worked off the grip.
Colt over-engineered it in the Series 80 and it works off the trigger.
Kimbers use the grip safety, like the original Swartz design.

The Series II safety on a Kimber is proprietary to Kimber. It is not a Swartz safety as what is on a Colt 80 series pistol.

Kimbers use the action of the grip safety to to move the firing pin block.

Colt's system uses the trigger bow to cause deactivation.

I have an Eclipse Target II and while the pistol is a shooter, I sometimes have difficulty deactivating the safety from a draw.

This is not a problem with the Colt Commander I have, but some claim the safety system affects the feel of the trigger. I haven't noticed it.

PS Neither safety systems bother me. However, if I have my druthers, I still prefer a 70 Series style without the firing pin safety.