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Thread: Kimber II owners please read

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  1. #1
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    Exclamation Kimber II owners please read

    After several “spirited” discussions on the removal of “safety” devices on firearms, and a truly enlightening post from SMMAssociates (thanks again SMM), I removed the slide on my Kimber II with the Schwartz mechanism and examined it carefully. There is no doubt this device can cause problems if you’re not careful when re-installing the slide on the frame. I never gripped the gun while installing the slide, my tendency is to grab the sides of the grip with my thumb on one side and fingers on the other, however, if you do “grip” the gun, thus squeezing the grip safety while installing the slide, you may be in for a real downer. The Schwartz push rod will be pushed up and almost certainly rub the back and bottom of the slide causing damage to both the push rod and slide. If you did this and sheared the top of the push rod or rounded it enough to shorten it, your gun will not fire due to the firing pin block not being pushed up. I believe, knowing the nature of some people (push the dang thing until it goes on) that this has lead to some of the bad publicity the Schwartz has gotten. Let’s face it, if someone wanted to make something sound bad, they could leave out the part about how the user did not re-assemble the parts involved correctly just to make it look like a problem. All this is spelled out clearly in the owner’s manual in red lettering. The problem is, many of us purchase used guns without papers and even if you are an experienced 1911 owner, if you’ve never had a Schwartz equipped gun, you would not necessarily be aware of this problem and would probably learn about it the hard way.

    Also, Do not hold the gun upside down when installing the slide! This allows the push rod to fall up into the slide resulting in the same problem. This point is not covered in the manual!

    Anyone with a Kimber II without a manual be advised, this is very important!

    Thanks for reading this post. I hope it saves someone the headache of making this mistake. And thanks again to SMMAssociates for bringing this to my attention. Another great example of people helping people in an open forum.
    Last edited by SharkZF6; 23rd January 2006 at 07:56.


  2. #2
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    Can you please elaborate on the Schwartz mechanism that you are speaking about. I am sorry for my ignorance, but I'm kinda new at this.
    Thank you
    Lifer

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lifer
    Can you please elaborate on the Schwartz mechanism that you are speaking about. I am sorry for my ignorance, but I'm kinda new at this.
    Thank you
    Lifer
    If you already own a Kimber II, it will be helpful if you look at it while reading this. The Schwartz was originally introduced in the ‘40s by a guy who worked for Colt by that name. The idea is to prevent accidental discharge if the gun is dropped or jarred significantly enough to cause the hammer to fall against the firing pin. It works by placing a pin block at the back of the firing pin inside the slide. This block is spring-loaded so that, by default, it prevents the firing pin from moving forward into the cartridge primer. The block is pushed off the pin by a rod which is seated against an arm on the grip safety. So the only way the firing pin can move into the primer is if the gun is being held in the hand and/or the grip safety is engaged. The grip safety still performs its original function in a Schwartz system, which is to block the trigger. So in a Schwartz gun, the grip safety provides 2 functions, where as in a non-Schwartz, it only provides 1 function. Hope this helps.

  4. #4
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    Hi Shark. Good explanation. But the hammer does not have to be involved. If the pistol is dropped from a certain height, and lands on the muzzle, the firing pin alone is enough to strike the primer...Pappy
    Johnny

    I miss America
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    Likes (1) :
    ca survivor (28th April 2016)


  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pappy
    Hi Shark. Good explanation. But the hammer does not have to be involved. If the pistol is dropped from a certain height, and lands on the muzzle, the firing pin alone is enough to strike the primer...Pappy
    Good point Pappy, since the pin is inertial. Thanks for adding that.

  6. #6
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    Thanks guys. I have a Kimber Eclipse II 10mm which is so new that I haven't fired it yet. I have removed the slide once and don't recall any difficulty putting it back together. I hope that I didn't mess anything up. I guess I will have to get the manual out and actually read it!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lifer
    Thanks guys. I have a Kimber Eclipse II 10mm which is so new that I haven't fired it yet. I have removed the slide once and don't recall any difficulty putting it back together. I hope that I didn't mess anything up. I guess I will have to get the manual out and actually read it!
    The Eclipse is a great looking gun. I just purchased an Eclipse Ultra myself. Regarding the Schwartz (II), if you didn't feel any extreme resistance while installing the slide, you probably didn't mess anything up. Check it out by visual inspection to be sure. You can also give it the "pencil" test where you push on the firing pin with a pencil (hammer cocked) while engaging and disengaging the grip safety, you'll see how it works instantly.

  8. #8
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    It is almost the same setup as used on the Glock. I acctually have something similar in my Colt if not the same thing. IIRC the colt system uses the triger to work this saftey not the grip saftey.

  9. #9
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    For anyone that bought a used Kimber and doesn't have the manual it can be downloaded from;

    http://www.kimberamerica.com/manuals.php
    Thanks,
    Rock

    Kimber Pro Raptor
    Safari Arms Matchmaster
    NRA Life Member

  10. #10
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    ive noticed something too....

    i just too apart a brand new pro raptor 11 and noticed as i removed the slide stop,and proceeded to slide the slide forward,it locked up on me,and it would not move one way or the next!,,i couldnt figure it out for anything!,,,then i got thinking about this schwarts thingy,and tapped it againt my knee allowing the back of the gun to hit againt my knee.
    it allowed the slide to go back into the original form when i just removed the slide stop.
    then WITHOUT TOUCHING THE PALM SAFETY..i pulled the slide forward,and it slid right off.
    ill tell you,for a split second i thought id never get the darn slide off,i thought it was locked on there for some reason for good,and id have to take it in to be figured out.
    well,,,i just can say i do not like that schwarts piece,and i dont like how it can lock up your gun to the point were you think you got to take it to a gun smith to be fixed!

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