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Thread: external extractor

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  1. #21
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  2. #22
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    Thanks Hawkmoon, after reading all those, it shows that some EE worked and some didn't. Usually the simplest and most logical answer is the right one. I'm personally very happy that Kimber did away with the external extractor. I was there with boots on the ground when Kimber was struggling with the MIM parts. Some were fine and others not so much. I think they must have gotten everything ironed out, as of late.

    I must say, I do like the S&W and Sig external extractor design better. My guess is that when Kimber tested their "new EE design", they were using machined and hardened extractors, and came through with shining colors, but they didn't quite have their MIM process perfected yet, thus all the problems.

    When you are in the business, you will always hear more negative than you hear positive, that's just the nature of the beast.
    Last edited by fortis45; 9th November 2014 at 21:25.


  3. #23
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    I have seen multiple discussions indicating that, overall, Kimber replaced the slides on a little over one-third of the pistols they originally sold with external extractors. Without delving into actual numbers, that's an astonishingly high percentage of production for any single defect. I suppose in considering a 38 percent failure rate much depends on one's perspective. Yes, "a lot" of them (62 percent) didn't have problems, so one could bury one's head in the sand and say that "most" of them didn't have a problem. Or one could recognize the validity of customer concerns that having a better than one in three chance of getting a defective product is not likely to induce many people to buy your product.
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside
    Last edited by Hawkmoon; 10th November 2014 at 06:04.


  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by fortis45 View Post
    That's awesome Luke. I wish I still had my pre-series II Custom, but I know where it's at. I sold it to a friend of mine and he enjoys it now, so I'm happy its in a good home. I much prefer the "non series II Kimbers. I'm not a fan of the Schwartz safety. I don't know how old your son is, but I hope that he will appreciate it as much as you do. I sold millions of $$$$$$$ worth of Kimber non series II handguns. It's possible that I sold it to the dealer you bought it from. Do you remember the dealer you bought it from?
    I bought it the year it was manufactured, 1999, from a lgs in Phoenix. Big Bore was a small shop no longer in existence. He was also a gunsmith and had polished the flats of the slide. It now wear Robar's NP3 on the slide and their black Roguard on the frame.

    SEMPER FI

  5. #25
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    I sold boat loads of Kimbers that year. I've heard of Big Bore in Phoenix, but he wasn't my dealer. You have a sweet 1911 my friend. I would like to find a used one from that year for myself. When the phone rang in the office, it was usually a dealer screaming "where's my guns." the demand was very high and production wasn't anywhere close to keeping up. We always laughed cuz that was the same time Sinefeld was so popular on TV. We would joke about being the "gun nazi" in place of the soup nazi. "No guns for you" could be heard throughout the office followed by chuckles and laugher.

    Im glad you enjoy your heater.

  6. #26
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    As an update I did not buy an E Series, but did buy a Performance Center pistol based on the E Series.



    It has the wider external extractor which is supposed to pass the Hilton Yam and Larry Vickers extractor test for 1911s. It does and a ref to that test is the article by Tim Lau:

    http://modernserviceweapons.com/?p=131

    Other updates are my Grand Raptor keeps on going fine as does my older S&W 1911.

    Saying that I still prefer internal extractors because I can work on them. I have spares in my parts box and even invested in the tool to tension them from Brownells. If the S&W extractor fails it will mean a trip back to S&W.
    NRA Life Member

  7. #27
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    Actually the original John Browning design for the 1911 had the extractor on the OUTSIDE.The US war department made him put it on the inside.That's what I read anyways.
    Last edited by LouF; 8th January 2015 at 08:31.


  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by LouF View Post
    Actually the original John Browning design for the 1911 had the extractor on the OUTSIDE.The US war department made him put it on the inside.That's what I read anyways.
    Not really true.

    Colt's first pistol chambered in .45 Auto the M1905 had an external extractor, that's true. But it was a one-piece, spring steel extractor, just like the internal one we know. And like the internal part, it ran from the breechface [almost] all the way to the rear of the slide. Browning simply took his existing external extractor and 'packaged' it internally. Mechanically, the two were identical and had nothing in common with the coil-spring articulated extractors that we see today.
    Too many people miss the silver lining because they're expecting gold.
    M. Setter
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    condition2 (10th May 2017)


  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spyros View Post
    Not really true.

    Colt's first pistol chambered in .45 Auto the M1905 had an external extractor, that's true. But it was a one-piece, spring steel extractor, just like the internal one we know. And like the internal part, it ran from the breechface [almost] all the way to the rear of the slide. Browning simply took his existing external extractor and 'packaged' it internally. Mechanically, the two were identical and had nothing in common with the coil-spring articulated extractors that we see today.
    I stand corrected.Personally I think the internal looks better (cleaner) but the external is one less thing to take out of the slide when cleaning.My new S&W E series is 50% easier to strip and clean as compared to my 80 series Colt.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by PROGUN View Post
    It seems like you hear more about internal extractors needing adjusting or breaking than the S&W external extractors.
    How many manufacturers make S&W 1911s? (Be careful, that's a trick question.) And how long have they been making them ... five years? Maybe seven years?

    How many companies make 1911s with the original-type internal extractor and how long have have they been around? There are dozens of companies, and millions upon millions of pistols out there with the original design extractor. Even if the rate of failure for the internal extractor was 25 percent what the rate of failure is for the S&W design, you would still have (numerically) many times more problems with the original simply due to the number of guns out there.
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside

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