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Thread: external extractor

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  1. #11
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    no issues here with the external extractor.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by charlieb8 View Post
    S&W has been using external extractors for decades, ever since the Model 39. They figured out how to make them work and last, unlike Kimber which tried them and eventually did away with them.
    Kimber did away with them because it hurt sales, no other reason. I worked for Kimber for three years and remember the controversy. I never had anyone call and complain about it, from a function issue.

  3. #13
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    Oh come on, they were forced to change so many slides on those pistols, that it became irrational. Check in here and you will find several discussion about people returning the pistols to Kimber for extraction issues. And of course, when word of mouth went around, people didn't touch an external extractor equipped Kimber, even with a 6 feet pole.
    John Caradimas SV1CEC
    The M1911 Pistols Organization
    http://www.m1911.org
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    condition2 (10th May 2017)


  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by fortis45 View Post
    Kimber did away with them because it hurt sales, no other reason.
    I disagree. Kimber did away with them because Kimber's external extractors flat-out didn't work. As John noted, Kimber was replacing slides on a regular basis to make their guns work.

    Both SIG and S&W use external extractors on their 1911s. While in my mind there's an unresolved question as to whether or not their pistols are actually 1911s as a result of the external extractor, the extractor hasn't hurt their sales. The reason it hurt Kimber's sales was that it very quickly became known that Kimber's did NOT work.
    Hawkmoon
    On a good day, can hit the broad side of a barn ... from the inside

  5. #15
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    All I can tell you guys is from "my" experience" when I was working for them. I never received a single complaint from a function standpoint. I'm guessing that maybe they have a bad batch of MIM parts, and those were the ones that were failing. As sales guys, we could always tell when a bad batch of MIMed slide stops or safeties went out on guns. We were constantly mailing out replacement parts to our dealers. That seemed to last for 3 to 4 months then the problem would go away for awhile until the next batch of bad parts went out. Not all MIM parts are prone to failure if they are done right. I agree that I don't care for them, but not all of them are bad. There are plenty of guys out there that have absolutely no problems at all with Kimber external extractors, and yes, some do. That tells me that the design may not be at fault, more likely than not, it's a bad part. When I left Kimber, they haven't produced very many "ex" guns yet, but I keep contact with some folks there. They noticed a dip in sales when they did the switch over. They prolly replaced the slides to appease the customers and make them happy, but you guys blaming the extractor instead of blaming the part are wrong.

    I remember when some yahoo on a forum started the rumor that all Kimber handguns were built by Smith & Wesson. Boy did we get a lot of calls about that. People were convinced that all Kimbers were being built by S&W, that there really wasn't a Factory in Yonkers and that Kimber was full of it. Some Internet Commando had everyone stirred up for about 3 months over that one. My point being is that just because there is a lot of noise out there about one thing or another doesn't mean the noise makers are always right. Maybe they are only working with a small bit of info instead of seeing the whole picture. Would I be upset, yes, would I want an internal extractor if I had a problem with an "ex", yes I would.

    I have no loyalty to Kimber. I could bash them so bad on here if I wanted to, but I don't. I own a Kimber Super Carry Custom 5" and I absolutely love it. Yes it had a function issue when it was brand new, but it's all squared away now and it runs perfect with all factory ammo and all my handloads. I managed a gun store for 4.5 years and sold many Kimber handguns. Never had much of a problem concerning returns. Usually Taurus, Sig, Walther and a few others had problems, more so than the other brands we carried. Kimbers triggers are known for being very consistent right out of the box. Springfield Armory 1911 triggers are all over the place. Are Springfields great guns, yes some are.

    Kimbers rifles are known for either shooting well or not shooting well. I can't tell you how many times we had rifles shipped out that supposedly "don't shoot", then my buddy and me would take it out and shoot a 1/2 to 3/4" group with factory ammo in a rifle that "won't shoot". It became so common that we would roll our eyes before we shot. Yes there are problems with some of them, and yes, some wouldn't hold a 4" group at 100 yards, but that is a whole different subject for a different time and place.

  6. #16
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    I can chime in with my personal "experience". My S&W 1911sc commander size pistol has run perfectly through 1000's of rounds with no fte's. I trust it enough to carry it. My wife bought a used Kimber Super Match that was made in 2004. It had factory polished flats on the frame and slide. The original owner had sent it in to Kimber to be done. Anyway, when we started shooting it, we could not get through a mag without several fte's no matter the brand of ammo or magazine. We sent it to Kimber and they replaced the slide with one that had an internal extractor. Not a problem since. While they had it, they called and told us that the newer Super Matches came with the Kim Pro slide, and she could have that. Wifey said no way, She bought the gun because the polish job was so pretty. I've got to hand it to Kimber's customer service, they stepped up to the plate and gave her a polished stainless slide. All of this at no cost to us.
    SEMPER FI
    Last edited by lazyluke; 9th November 2014 at 11:22.


  7. #17
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    Luke, when you work for a company, you hear all the negativity and rarely hear the praises of the product you're dealing with. For awhile, I was thinking that the guns I was selling were no good and every other manufacturers guns were running no problem. I started reading about all the people who love the Kimbers they shoot and it made me feel a lot better. "Most of the time" Kimber customer service is great, but you can't please everybody, all of the time. I'm glad that they took good care of you. Maybe you got help from Winslow in the custom shop. He was always great to deal with. I'm sure there are people on this forum who have horror stories too.

    I have read about a bunch of guys shooting external extractor Kimbers. A lot of them say that after 10,000 and 20,000 rounds, they have never had a fte and never had a stoppage either. That in itself tells me it's a parts issue, and not a design flaw. The next 1911 that's on my wish list is a S&W sw1911sc in all black. What a sexy handgun.

    There are more guns being build out there with external extractors than the opposite. But I hear tons of people having problems with internal extractors as well. Parts, parts, parts is what I am preaching I guess. Of all the 1000's of guns I have sold over the years, Glocks have given me fewer problems than any of them. I heard one guy describe it as, if you want a reliable gun, straight out of the box, buy a Glock. It's compared to the Honda Civic, its reliable, but maybe not all that sexy. A 1911 may need some tinkering now and then, but once it's set up right, you got yourself a high performance sports car, that is also reliable if built right, and also downright sexy to boot.

    If I was into building gun parts, I would build replacement external extractors for the Kimbers that are out there.

    I much prefer to own a Kimber without that stupid Schwartz style safety. To me it's a stupid addition that doesn't need to exist, as long as you use an extra power firing pin spring and maybe a lighter firing pin. That's one reason why I believe Glocks work so well. There isn't that many parts involved. I've been to Glock Armory School. Yes they do fail, but it's more rare than others out there. I've also been to S&W M&P Armory School. That gun requires so many tools and three hands to work on. No thanks, I'll pass.

    Anyways, I'm way off the subject. Luke, Semper Fi brother!

    Even NASA builds stuff that blows up!
    Last edited by fortis45; 9th November 2014 at 12:58.


  8. #18
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    I should state that the problem I had with my Kimber Super Carry 5" is the internal extractor wasn't a bad part, it just needed a little metal removed and polished. Also throated the barrel and polished the breach face. What a dream to shoot now. I love 5" and 4.25" lightweight framed 1911's.

  9. #19
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    fortis45, My first 1911 was a pre series II Classic Stainless. That pistol has thousands of IDPA rounds through it and will never leave me until my son inherits it. It just runs, and runs and runs. Great shooter.
    SEMPER FI

  10. #20
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    That's awesome Luke. I wish I still had my pre-series II Custom, but I know where it's at. I sold it to a friend of mine and he enjoys it now, so I'm happy its in a good home. I much prefer the "non series II Kimbers. I'm not a fan of the Schwartz safety. I don't know how old your son is, but I hope that he will appreciate it as much as you do. I sold millions of $$$$$$$ worth of Kimber non series II handguns. It's possible that I sold it to the dealer you bought it from. Do you remember the dealer you bought it from?

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