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Thread: Randall Recoil Spring question

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  1. #1
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    Randall Recoil Spring question

    Hi folks! New poster here and by way of introduction here's my piece:


    I bought this brand new in 1985 as a survival weapon. I was flying F-14s at the time and the Navy gave us two choices in survival weapons (besides a knife) that we could carry with us. Nothing was the preferred choice as everyone knows you may trust a Naval Aviator with a $35 million plane, eight missiles and a 20mm cannon but heaven forbid you give him a handgun! The second choice (to be issued in only rare instances) was a WWII era government 1911. These guns were so bad that they sounded like baby rattles when you shook them. I chose the unofficial third option which was to purchase my own piece and the Randall was perfect being stainless (the only one around at the time) and the CL4Star was just the right size to fit in the front pouch on my survival vest.

    So, this brings us to the problems.
    A couple of years after I got the gun (and Randall went out of business) the recoil spring guide broke:


    Also, before the guide broke it wouldn't feed reliably. It was OK with FMJ but jammed about every 10th round with unjacketed ball and hollowpoint (Winchester Silvertip). The smitty polished the feed ramp and breech. Inside the breech he found tool marks that are probably the cause of the unreliable feed but he could not polish the marks completely out without opening the breech too much. He replaced the broken guide with a spring kit but I don't recall who made it. This kit has three recoil springs, a smaller diameter guide rod with triple laminated flange, and a stronger firing pin spring. The flange's two outer plates are steel and the inner piece appears to be a very hard rubber which serves as an impact buffer. These fixes improved the reliability and, when there's an occasional feed failure a simple rap on the slide seats it home. I'm figuring this is about average with .45's when it comes to HP or ball ammo.

    Here's the replacement guide rod:


    Complete recoil spring assembly:


    The gun's been in my dresser as a home defense gun for ages and I've only occasionally fired it (probably less than a 100 rnds through it). A friend at work found out I had a Randall and thought they were pretty rare so I started doing some looking around and then went over my piece to see exactly what I had. While doing this I noticed something unusual. The end of guide rod doesn't sit square in the plug tunnel, it's angled up toward the barrel:


    That got me thinking and looking and I realized that the inside portion of the frame where the guide rod flange sits isn't machined square, the bottom edge (in yellow) is too far forward which angles the guide rod up:


    This is also the reason I suspect that the original guide rod broke. The rod was held straight by the plug which means the flange was sitting at an angle resulting in the breakage when the slide hit it on recoil. You can see in the previous picture of the broken part just how much force is exerted on the flange. Both the front and back are similarly mangled.

    So, new parts in, gun works fine, where's the problem? Well, I'm concerned about the slide cracking. All of this stress comes together at the impact point on the back of the slide plug tunnel, the point where it appears several Randalls have failed. I can't be sure but there may be the beginnings of a very, very tiny crack at that juncture of my slide so I'm going to get the slide NDIed before shooting it again. Of course it could just be my old eyes fooling me but I'd rather be safe than one-eyed. This is what I'd like to avoid:



    There are still a number of questions. Has anyone else noticed their guide rod similarly misangled? Can the frame be machined to square the impact point up? Can anyone identify the spring kit that's in my gun and know if it's good or, since the flange is thicker (by about 25%), can it contribute to slide failure? Last, it appears that the plug tunnel is the only thing that restrains the slide during recoil, if it catastrophically fails does the slide stay on the gun or come flying off to hit you in the face? Last, since the barrel still has some machine marks that can't be removed does anyone have a recommendation for a replacement barrel? Thanks!
    Last edited by Mace14; 20th January 2013 at 19:27.


  2. #2
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    Hello Mace14 and welcome to the forum.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mace14
    Has anyone else noticed their guide rod similarly misangled?
    The first thing I did when I got mine was to take out the guide rod and put in a GI rod and plug. I have 2 Randall full length guide rods if you need one. But I would just change it out. It was a lousy design anyway.

    The factory guide rod is hollow and has a takedown notch (real pain) unless the LeMay model is different. Mine is a Commander size



    Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you,
    Jesus Christ and the American GI.
    One died for your soul; the other for your freedom..
    Last edited by rjinaz85308; 20th January 2013 at 19:11.


  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by tekarra
    Hello Mace14 and welcome to the forum.
    Thanks Tekarra!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by rjinaz85308
    The first thing I did when I got mine was to take out the guide rod and put in a GI rod and plug. I have 2 Randall full length guide rods is you need one. But i would just change it out. It was a lousy design anyway.
    I appreciate the offer but the problem isn't really the guide rod, it's the fact that part of the frame that the rod flange sits on isn't square. This is what broke my original part so just putting in another original part would probably break that one as well. I think the only reason the replacement rod hasn't broken is that the flexible impact cushion may be allowing enough flex that it hasn't cracked. My biggest concern is what impact this all has on the slide given that the guide flange is thicker.

    It's interesting but the welding on your guide rod looks completely different than mine. The LeMay has a 4.25" barrel and it's hollow with the slot at the end like yours. I'm curious, does your guide rod sit square in the frame or does it angle up?
    Last edited by Mace14; 20th January 2013 at 19:35.


  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mace14
    I appreciate the offer but the problem isn't really the guide rod, it's the fact that part of the frame that the rod flange sits on isn't square. This is what broke my original part so just putting in another original part would probably break that one as well. I think the only reason the replacement rod hasn't broken is that the flexible impact cushion may be allowing enough flex that it hasn't cracked. My biggest concern is what impact this all has on the slide given that the guide flange is thicker.

    It's interesting but the welding on your guide rod looks completely different than mine. The LeMay has a 4.25" barrel and it's hollow with the slot at the end like yours. I'm curious, does your guide rod sit square in the frame or does it angle up?
    don't know. Like I said I put a GI guide rod in right away. Can't check it out now because it is at the gunsmiths having some work done on it.

    Texas Redneck will probably weigh in on this at sometime. He has a bunch of these so he may be able to shed some light on it.
    Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you,
    Jesus Christ and the American GI.
    One died for your soul; the other for your freedom..
    Last edited by rjinaz85308; 20th January 2013 at 20:04.


  7. #7
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    I've not seen that issue on mine, and on tear-down mine are aligned properly. I'd suggest finding a GOOD 1911 smith in your area to check it out. If you can't, get in touch w/Briley (Houston, TX) and talk to them about sending it in. I have had them do a couple that had feed issues w/JHP. Randall built to original spec, which meant it'd feed hardball fine, but would sometimes have problems with JHP and such. They have been able to correct that issue for me and several others.

  8. #8
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    Mace, I know for a fact Alchemy Custom Guns has the tools and savy to true the guide rod seat.

    They are accessable by 'phone, Facebook, e-mail, and...? Point is they're acccessable.

    Currently, wait time is measured in weeks, not months or years, prices are reasonable, and work is top shelf.

    Having a chat with them might be worth your time.

    salty

  9. #9
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    Funny you should post this! I purchased a Randall Service Model in the 80s. Shot it quite a bit but it has been replaced with other models and it hasn't seen much range time in quite awhile. A few months ago I was feeling guilty because it had been years since I field stripped and cleaned it.

    Well this time when I took it apart I found the guide rod had broken. I hadn't even realized it and had fired it while it was broken.

    I ended up switching it out for a standard GI plug and rod. Wish I would've thought of that 30 years ago! I didn't field strip it as much as I should have because it was always a pain to take apart.
    Last edited by zenner22; 2nd February 2013 at 19:37.


  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by zenner22
    Funny you should post this! I purchased a Randall Service Model in the 80s. Shot it quite a bit but it has been replaced with other models and it hasn't seen much range time in quite awhile. A few months ago I was feeling guilty because it had been years since I field stripped and cleaned it.

    Well this time when I took it apart I found the guide rod had broken. I hadn't even realized it and had fired it while it was broken.

    I ended up switching it out for a standard GI plug and rod. Wish I would've thought of that 30 years ago! I didn't field strip it as much as I should have because it was always a pain to take apart.
    You might want to check to see how square the guide rod seat is in the frame. I'd be interested in knowing if this is a common problem or not.

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