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Thread: 1911 hammer down with chamber loaded is safe for series 80?

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  1. #21
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    10th April 2010
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    For the most part, for self-defense carry, I wouldn't consider anything but Condition 1. When you really need to shoot, you need to shoot NOW, and too many things can go wrong with cocking hammers, Israeli draws (requires much practice), and other acrobatics. If I am carrying in the woods or in muck, I just carry in a flap holster, or sometimes I carry with a mag in and no round in the chamber. In the woods hunting, I don't worry as much about immediate self-defense, plus I am carrying a loaded 30/30.

    All things being said, under usual conditions, a lot of things have to happen for all the safety features on a 1911 to fail in cond. 1 and the pistol discharge. Any loaded weapon, if dropped, can discharge. That's just physics. I believe carrying a 1911 cocked and locked is far safer than carrying a loaded revolver...maybe not. Then, too, how often are you guys dropping your weapons? I dropped a magazine in boot camp one time and I had to polish fired brass all evening with a tooth brush and rag and line them up in platoon formation on a table for inspection! You can bet I didn't drop anything else. Who knows what would have happened if I had dropped the actual weapon!

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gobus1
    Who knows what would have happened if I had dropped the actual weapon!

    Gunny would have made it his life's mission to make yours miserable for the remainder of your time.

    Yeah. Ask me how I know...

  3. #23
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    Hey, see what you find when you look at older threads?

    http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=10996
    John Caradimas SV1CEC
    The M1911 Pistols Organization
    http://www.m1911.org

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gobus1
    For the most part, for self-defense carry, I wouldn't consider anything but Condition 1. When you really need to shoot, you need to shoot NOW, and too many things can go wrong with cocking hammers, Israeli draws (requires much practice), and other acrobatics. If I am carrying in the woods or in muck, I just carry in a flap holster, or sometimes I carry with a mag in and no round in the chamber. In the woods hunting, I don't worry as much about immediate self-defense, plus I am carrying a loaded 30/30.
    Assuming you're carrying your 30/30 loaded with a live round in the chamber and the hammer at half-cock the only way to get it there is to lower the hammer from full cock over a loaded chamber.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by peerlesscowboy
    Assuming you're carrying your 30/30 loaded with a live round in the chamber and the hammer at half-cock the only way to get it there is to lower the hammer from full cock over a loaded chamber.
    This is true. I suppose I would just have to step behind a tree while I prepared to shoot...

  6. #26
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    17th September 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1911Tuner


    As far as lowering the hammer on a hot chamber...yes...it carries some risk. The trick to doing it safely is a matter of knowing how and being careful. Basically, it entails not getting in a hurry. After all, Browning designed all his "hammer" guns to employ the half-cock as a safety position...and that meant lowering the hammer.

    You don't pull the trigger and try to catch the hammer. That almost a guarantees a discharge sooner or later. You get control of the hammer first...and then pull the trigger. You keep the gun pointed in a safe direction and you maintain control of the hammer all the way down. You also don't do it in a rush or when you're distracted. You give it your full attention,the same as you do when using a chain saw or a straight razor. Practicing the move with an empty pistol or rifle is also a good idea.

    I've often said that if the day comes that I don't have the manual dexterity and/or the presence of mind to lower a hammer without endangering myself and the dogs...I'll sell all my guns and take up golf.

    Bottom line:

    Is gun. Gun not safe.

    I have been using the loaded chamber with hammer down or on half cock for over 40 years, with no ill effects at all. I use my left hand fingers to hold the hammer from the sides of the spur, manipulating the trigger to release the hammer with my right, keeping the gun pointed in a safe direction. Never had a bad result, and I have NO problem with cocking the hammer quickly.

    FWIW, I shot a few golf balls the other day...
    I used a .357 Magnum...those golf people get all panicky pretty easily, you know?

    mark
    Last edited by dogngun; 1st May 2013 at 05:56.


  7. #27
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    Icon18 " Tuner " knows

    I go along with "Tuner", always have your wits about you. And you'll stay out of trouble. If I let a hammer down on a loaded round, I'm always thinking about the slide coming back "real fast."
    "Carry the battle to them.Don't let them bring it to you.Put them on the defensive and don't ever apologize for anything"-Harry S. Truman

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwenum
    I go along with "Tuner", always have your wits about you. And you'll stay out of trouble. If I let a hammer down on a loaded round, I'm always thinking about the slide coming back "real fast."
    Well, to each his own. I am not carrying with the hammer down on a live round. Half-cock introduces another action that has to be performed under stress in a self-defense situation. It just doesn't make sense to me. I must say that the hesitancy of some to carry cocked and locked puzzles me a bit. A lot has to go wrong in a properly maintained 1911 for an accidental discharge from Cond. 1. Why not just carry a revolver or a DA pistol? With the hammer down or half-cock, you have defeated the purpose of a single action pistol already.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gobus1
    Well, to each his own. I am not carrying with the hammer down on a live round. Half-cock introduces another action that has to be performed under stress in a self-defense situation. It just doesn't make sense to me. I must say that the hesitancy of some to carry cocked and locked puzzles me a bit. A lot has to go wrong in a properly maintained 1911 for an accidental discharge from Cond. 1. Why not just carry a revolver or a DA pistol? With the hammer down or half-cock, you have defeated the purpose of a single action pistol already.
    What purpose? Are we back to the myth that the 1911 "was designed to be carried in Condition 1?" It can be carried cocked and locked, and also can be carried in any of several conditions including half cock (with a hammer having the original captive half-cock notch), which didn't even get a place on the conditions of carry list. Yet, as Tuner has patiently explaned many times in many threads, half-cocked or Condition 2 or Condition 3 all have there place and it's not just the uneducated who choose carry conditions other than Condition 1.
    "Make yourselves sheep and the wolves will eat you." --Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11 Bravo
    What purpose? Are we back to the myth that the 1911 "was designed to be carried in Condition 1?" It can be carried cocked and locked, and also can be carried in any of several conditions including half cock (with a hammer having the original captive half-cock notch), which didn't even get a place on the conditions of carry list. Yet, as Tuner has patiently explaned many times in many threads, half-cocked or Condition 2 or Condition 3 all have there place and it's not just the uneducated who choose carry conditions other than Condition 1.
    Fair enough. When ya'll are confronted suddenly by a bad guy, go ahead and cock and rack and all that jazz. I'm going click/bang.

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