Video: "Grip"

Anyone with 2 cents can most assuredly give me any advice they are wanting to, negative or positive, after all, that IS why i am here. What is your opinion of my support thumb?

Interesting viewpoint on the "limp wristing".

So basically, what you're saying is that the grip of the gun is so that you can hold a correct site picture, fire a round, and not affect the recoil so that the muzzle falls back to its original position, not so much "controlling" the recoil, as much as just utilizing it.

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Originally Posted by AndyJay

One little problem with that though: when I do that, I'm not depressing the grip safety well enough to fire, sometimes. Guess I need to invest in a memory grip safety...

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I also have that problem! And, all five of my 1911's have the "bump" on the grip safety.

With the "high thumb" hold the web of my hand is putting upward pressure on the tang of the grip safety. This causes the GS to pivot and put pressure on the lower part of the GS outward. No matter how hard I try I cannot get a consistant high thumb grip that will let the palm of my hand release the GS. If I place the gun "just so" in my hand I can get it to work, but that requires me to lower my grip, and this isn't something that I can do quickly and consistantly.

If there's a "trick" to it I would surely like to know .... :(

Controlling the recoil vs managing it. You've got the right idea Armed, you can't really control it, what you try to do is manage it so that it becomes predictable. A handgun will recoil up and to the right because of the twist cut in the barrel to make the bullet spin. That's why you want to use more pressure on the left. You apply just enough left pressure to counteract the right hand torque so the sight goes straight up and down. I think I described this better in the other thread you posted to.

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Originally Posted by armedandfree

Anyone with 2 cents can most assuredly give me any advice they are wanting to, negative or positive, after all, that IS why i am here. What is your opinion of my support thumb?

Interesting viewpoint on the "limp wristing".

So basically, what you're saying is that the grip of the gun is so that you can hold a correct site picture, fire a round, and not affect the recoil so that the muzzle falls back to its original position, not so much "controlling" the recoil, as much as just utilizing it.

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Thanks for the opportunity to butt in!

Your last sentence is exactly what I meant, yes-- better to adapt to and use the recoil than to fight it.

On the thumb placement: Having read or watched several professional competitive pistoleros, I gather that the thumb placement is the same, whether it touches the pistol or not. Enos has his support thumb hanging in midair, but it still points toward the target. Jarrett and Leatham (and Lurper of course) rest the thumb against the side of the pistol. The thumb isn't applying pressure, but just lightly resting there (as is also the case with the shooting hand thumb).

The placement of said thumb is easy to verify by obtaining the grip and then pointing the muzzle straight up. Your trigger finger (straightened alongside the trigger guard) and thumb should match in length along the sides of the pistol. You don't want the thumb to be up on the slide, obviously; it should run level with the slide lock release lever.

Hope that helps some--

Andy

GaryVS-- It took both the "speed-bump" grip safety and a flat mainspring housing to overcome my problem. Flat MSH also seems to allow more accurate point-shooting, but that might just be a quirk of my own anatomy. It's certainly more comfortable for me.

I suspect we may both suffer from too-short fingers... try a flat MSH!

A.

(edited for clarity)

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Originally Posted by AndyJay

I suspect we may both suffer from too-short fingers... try a flat MSH!

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Alas, all of my 1911's have a flat MSH .... :(

Pooooooooooor me .....

Try a short trigger in addition. I use a short trigger on all my 1911s together with a flat MSH and "speed bump" grip safety. I don't seem to have a problem with a high hold, and in fact I keep my strong hand thumb on the safety at all times.

DVC

Good advice from all. I would also check the postion of the gun relative to the web between thumb and forefinger of the strong hand. Make sure the pistol is inline with your wrist and forearm. Also, check your wrist position. It should be in the same position as when you shake someone's hand.

For those having problems viewing the videos, the are posted on youtube under the account of shootingcoach. Look for them there.

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Originally Posted by AndyJay

The placement of said thumb is easy to verify by obtaining the grip and then pointing the muzzle straight up. Your trigger finger (straightened alongside the trigger guard) and thumb should match in length along the sides of the pistol. You don't want the thumb to be up on the slide, obviously; it should run level with the slide lock release lever.

Hope that helps some--

Andy

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Hmmmm, it doesn't work that way for me. If I grip with the weak (right) hand the way that feels right, my trigger finger goes further forward than the thumb. To get the two to match up I have to move my weak hand forward away from the grip.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/darwin-t/GRIP1.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/darwin-t/GRIP2.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/darwin-t/GRIP3.jpg

What am I doing wrong?

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Originally Posted by garrettwc

Controlling the recoil vs managing it. You've got the right idea Armed, you can't really control it, what you try to do is manage it so that it becomes predictable. A handgun will recoil up and to the right because of the twist cut in the barrel to make the bullet spin. That's why you want to use more pressure on the left. You apply just enough left pressure to counteract the right hand torque so the sight goes straight up and down. I think I described this better in the other thread you posted to.

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Thankyou. That makes sense. I have learned so much already. Just from a few posts.

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Originally Posted by AndyJay

Thanks for the opportunity to butt in!

Your last sentence is exactly what I meant, yes-- better to adapt to and use the recoil than to fight it.

On the thumb placement: Having read or watched several professional competitive pistoleros, I gather that the thumb placement is the same, whether it touches the pistol or not. Enos has his support thumb hanging in midair, but it still points toward the target. Jarrett and Leatham (and Lurper of course) rest the thumb against the side of the pistol. The thumb isn't applying pressure, but just lightly resting there (as is also the case with the shooting hand thumb).

The placement of said thumb is easy to verify by obtaining the grip and then pointing the muzzle straight up. Your trigger finger (straightened alongside the trigger guard) and thumb should match in length along the sides of the pistol. You don't want the thumb to be up on the slide, obviously; it should run level with the slide lock release lever.

Hope that helps some--

Andy

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Thanks, that clarifies a lot.


Is the only way to perfect obtaining this hold from drawing it from a holster, repetitive practice? Are there any tricks?

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Originally Posted by darwin-t

Hmmmm, it doesn't work that way for me. If I grip with the weak (right) hand the way that feels right, my trigger finger goes further forward than the thumb. To get the two to match up I have to move my weak hand forward away from the grip.

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It doesnt seem like you are angling your support hand forward. If you are, my mistake. But from the pictures, it does not seem to compare to what Lurper was saying about tilting the support hand forward so that the bends of your elbows match. Try tilting it forward more.