The National Organization for 1911 Specifications

I recently did a few upgrades to one of my 1911's. Barrel bushing, recoil spring 17lb., Extended Mag catch,Full length Guide rod.
The only part that required any fitting was the barrel bushing and that was only the width of the lug.
To make a long story short. I turned a reliable 1911 into a unreliable 1911.
So all the old parts went back in and it's back to reliable.
While scratching my head I noticed the factory mag catch held the mag a hair higher in the gun. Barrel bushing I still don't see a differance other than the slide to bushing fit was tighter with the aftermarket one.
The gun also seemed to cycle better with less kick with the factory 16lb recoil spring over the 17lb.
The bottom line is why can't all the 1911 companies and parts companies get together and agree on the same specs?
If they want they could also have a "Gunsmith Fit" that is oversized.
But drop in, should drop in.

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Originally Posted by T-TAC

....But drop in, should drop in.

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Good luck with that ;)

I've seen the statement here on the forum many times, "there's no such thing as a drop in part for the 1911".

They're not kiddin, and that includes the recoil spring plug and magazines.

Hello,

If everyone made 1911s specifically to the government 1911 specifications then maybe......there would be drop-ins.....fortunate or not everyone has improved the government model.

For instance, I love my new MetroArms American Classic because so far its been per the government print (bar the NM lower barrel knee profile) but it certainly doesn't shoot anything like my Springfild TRP opperator. When I buy part to improve its accuracy I must fit thant part to the pistol. So far the only part that dropped in was a Colt Government barrel but this was because the barrel was loosely-goosey....very reliable but not as accurate as a custom fit barrel...everything is a compromise...

Rgds
Eric

Quote:

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Originally Posted by T-TAC

The bottom line is why can't all the 1911 companies and parts companies get together and agree on the same specs?
If they want they could also have a "Gunsmith Fit" that is oversized.
But drop in, should drop in.

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That is something that is bemoaned by everyone who ever ventures into the 1911 arena. Especially if they came from another popular gun. There are two simple reasons why it has never happened, and never will:

1. There are dozens of 1911 manufacturers, and they all think they know better than John Moses Browning (they rarely do) and have tweaked or stretched the specs to fit their idea of the perfect 1911.

2. 1911s were invented during a time when everything was hand fitted and very little was mass produced on machines. Even today, only certain steps can be completed by CNC machines. There is still a certain amount of hand fitting required. It's just the nature of the design. And each one of those hands will vary from person to person, or from gun to gun with the same person.

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Originally Posted by T-TAC

To make a long story short. I turned a reliable 1911 into a unreliable 1911.

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Happens all the time. It's part of the learning experience. Now the thing to do is go back and study the problem to learn why. Use the process of elimination. Replace ONE of the parts and see what happens. Then put the original back in and try the next part. Then try pairs of parts. When you identify the problem part, then study all you can about that and try to figure out what you did wrong.

If I had to guess, I would say it was the bushing. This is my clue:

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Originally Posted by T-TAC

The only part that required any fitting was the barrel bushing and that was only the width of the lug.

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You almost never get this lucky on the barrel to bushing fit. I'd say the barrel may be binding in the bushing.

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Originally Posted by Dave Berryhill

Good luck with that ;)

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That one made me

:lm:

I had an insight into this recently when looking at (of all things) Glock parts. The Glock patents expired a couple of years ago, so the fun is just getting started. It seems that certain makers of Glock "drop in" barrels actually make the lower lugs a little oversized, for increased engagement and (supposedly) greater accuracy. But CCI Raceframes, which makes a Glock frame, makes the locking block (the equivalent of the barrel link and slide stop pin combined) a little oversized--for increased engagement.

Put the two together, and you have a non-functioning pistol that--assuming you can get the thing to go into battery--might break something if you pull the trigger. Like what you'd get if you stuffed a 1911 with with a "hard fit" barrel without bothering to adjust the fit.

So, in 30 (or 90) years, expect to see "There's no such thing as a drop-in part on a Glock" everywhere.

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Originally Posted by garrettwc

I'd say the barrel may be binding in the bushing.

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+1 Check for barrel springing.

If you succeeded, and everyone made parts that were identical, you would have created a marketing opportunity, and I would rush out and manufacture some parts that were different, and therefore better, that you would have to pay more for.

So carry on, you get everyone to conform, and I'll get my company set up and ready!

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Originally Posted by T-TAC

The gun also seemed to cycle better with less kick with the factory 16lb recoil spring over the 17lb.

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This is typically how it works.

Lighter recoil springs equate to higher slide velocity and a shorter (faster) cyclic rate. This is usually perceived as less felt recoil. Competitive shooters usually run the lightest recoil springs which will still give reliable function to decrease their split times along with sight recovery. Reliability begins to suffer when either the slide is cycling faster than the magazine spring can lift the next round, or their is insufficient force to feed reliably from the magazine - a clean 1911 needs less than 16# to reliably feed. Lightly sprung guns can suffer reliability problems when extremely dirty.

Heavier recoil springs slow slide velocity. This is often perceived as more felt recoil. It also can result in a slide "short-stroking" or not traveling through its entire range of motion. This can fail to cock the weapon, cause stovepipe stoppages, or fail to strip a round from the magazine. It can also contribute to "limp wrist" stoppages. It can help on firing hot loads or keeping a very dirty pistol running. People commonly increase recoil spring rates when they should really replace or increase the rate on magazine springs.

MEU(SOC) 1911's were built with 18# recoil springs. Larry Vickers also recommends 18# recoil springs. This is because both the USMC and Mr. Vickers intend their 1911's to operate in extremely adverse conditions, run by highly trained people, firing 10's of 1000's of rounds in a short period of time. 1911's for defensive purposes by civilians and LE will benefit the most by sticking with the stock weight springs and replacing them every 3000 rounds, IMHO.