The M1911 Pistols Organization Forums Site - 1911 Commerical - Canadian issued
Home
Welcome to M1911.ORG
The M1911 Pistols Organization Forums Site
Contact Us Mission Statement Forum Rules Moderator Rules Legal HelpDesk Our Guestbook Donations

Go Back   The M1911 Pistols Organization Forums Site > Collector's Corner > Commercial Colt Government Model, Ace, SM Ace, Super .38 and Commander pistols
User Name
Password
Register Activate FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Have you checked the M1911.ORG E-zine lately? Click here to visit it.
Reviews of the latest M1911 models and much more.


Have you registered in our Gun-Politics.ORG site?

Sponsors Panel





M1911.ORG proudly presents you our folding knife.

Read all about it and order yours today.

 
This is an old thread. You can't post a reply in it. It is left here for historical reasons.Why don't you create a new thread instead?
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   Quote post in private message
United States  Old 15th December 2005, 23:14
jagsport jagsport is offline
Junior Member
 
User ID: 6984
Join Date: 15th December 2005
Posts: 7 
1911 Commerical - Canadian issued

I recieved a Goverment model 1911 made in 1914- It is 98% or better.
Amazing ! - SERIAL NUMBER C-139xx. It came with a correct USGI issued manual ( guys shooting off horseback ) and it has signed names of soiliders ( I assume ) inside the main cover. My research on this gun is as follows :

"The pistols acquired for the First Contingent of the Canadian Expeditionary Force were once more obtained from Colt: this time, the handgun adopted was that company's "state-of-the-art" Model 1911 semi-automatic pistol. A total of 5000 were acquired, all coming from Colt's 1914 "Commercial" production and thus having a beautiful high-polish "oven-blue" finish, with finely checkered walnut grips." This is a direct copy from (www.canadiansoliders.com ) web page - from there weapons tab.....

If I can prove this providence of 1of 5000 through a Colt Letter - should I pursue it. Does it help it's collectabilty ?

Should I research the names of the soliders to further the value of the gun ?
Thanks
John

  #2   Quote post in private message Quote post in an email
Mexico  Old 15th December 2005, 23:38
mayagrafix's Avatar
mayagrafix mayagrafix is offline
Old Timer
 
User ID: 5845
Join Date: 5th October 2005
Location: 20° 58' N 89° 38' W
Posts: 501 
My Government model has a six digit number (C118xxx) and I figure a 1927 production year. From what I've gleamed about .45's is that the military models are more desirable because of the multiple proof marks that the commercial models don't have, and that a military model with battle experience is 11 on a top ten list. Any M1911 with a letter of authenticity from Colt is more valuable, but it's gonna cost you 100 smackers. Are there any photos of the previous owner in uniform, or can a relative relate the story of the pistol? (and maybe willing to put in writing?). That would also help in lieu or in addition to a letter from Colt.

Maybe if this regiment saw action in Gallipoli you could really have something, me thinks.

PS: POST A PICTURE

  #3   Quote post in private message Quote post in an email
United States  Old 16th December 2005, 09:56
exitwounds exitwounds is offline
Old Timer
 
User ID: 2396
Join Date: 29th January 2005
Location: Pennsyltucky
Posts: 1,440 
Serial Number C-139xx is too high to be part of the Canadian procurement. The 5,000 pistol procurement was sn ranges:
Sep 11, 1914 1,000 C3000-8400
Sep 24, 1914 300 C5400-C8700
Sep 29, 1914 300 C8000-C9500
Sep 30, 1914 100 C8500- C9700
Oct 1, 1914 180 C8500-C9700
Oct 2, 1914 120 C5700-C9700
Shipped to Gov't of Canada, dept. of Militia & Defense, c/o J. Wesley, Waddington, NY
3,000 more were shipped to HW Brown, Quebec, Canada for a total of 5,000.
Oct 31, 1914 1,000 C7900-11400
Nov 7, 1914 1,000 C9800-C12700
Nov 14, 1914 1,000 C11100-C13500

Are there any unit markings or officer's name on it?

  #4   Quote post in private message Quote post in an email
Mexico  Old 16th December 2005, 10:45
mayagrafix's Avatar
mayagrafix mayagrafix is offline
Old Timer
 
User ID: 5845
Join Date: 5th October 2005
Location: 20° 58' N 89° 38' W
Posts: 501 
Great info, exitwounds. C-139xx just misses the last batch from Nov. 1914. However, it does confirm jagsport initial remark about being a 1914 pistol. Maybe C-139xx was purchased privately by one of the regiments officers?

  #5   Quote post in private message Quote post in an email
United States  Old 16th December 2005, 11:26
exitwounds exitwounds is offline
Old Timer
 
User ID: 2396
Join Date: 29th January 2005
Location: Pennsyltucky
Posts: 1,440 
Because of urgent need they did not recieve the Canadian inspection/acceptance stamps, but many are known to have officer's names and unit markings according to Clawson.

  #6   Quote post in private message
United States  Old 17th December 2005, 01:00
jagsport jagsport is offline
Junior Member
 
User ID: 6984
Join Date: 15th December 2005
Posts: 7 
No names - no unit markings - but again I have the miltary issued manual with names of the group / division inside- there is no doubt that it came from Canada and I am sure that if Canadians proofed there guns it is not a listed parctice ( as exported ) from the US. I cannot find it anyways.
With regards to commericals vs. non miltary I respectfully disagree that war pedigree has some intrinsic value that supersedes condition on 45's., For example A 1911 commerical made in 1914 in 98% will out sell a 1911 made in 1927 in 50% condition - BLUE BOOK -
The issue or rarity (not war participation ) would only precede condition of a 1911 like a Navy for example.

  #7   Quote post in private message Quote post in an email
United States  Old 17th December 2005, 10:08
exitwounds exitwounds is offline
Old Timer
 
User ID: 2396
Join Date: 29th January 2005
Location: Pennsyltucky
Posts: 1,440 
You may be interested in Clive Law's book, "CANADIAN MILITARY HANDGUNS, 1855-1985". There is mention of the 5,000 pistol shipment. Is your magazine marked? Spare magazines supplied to the Canadian Gov't were marked with a "C" and inside the C was an arrow, know as the C-broad arrow. That same mark was found on later pistols at the rear left of the slide and below the inspector stamp (Colt M1911A1 Canadian Lend-Lease 930,000 - 936,000 in 1943 for a total of 1,515 pistols).

  #8   Quote post in private message
United States  Old 17th December 2005, 16:00
jagsport jagsport is offline
Junior Member
 
User ID: 6984
Join Date: 15th December 2005
Posts: 7 
Thanks - you caught me on this issue - it did not come with a magazine - I purchased a correct type ( with Lanyard ) but it is not orginal.
Thanks for the lead on the book.

  #9   Quote post in private message Quote post in an email
Mexico  Old 17th December 2005, 22:34
mayagrafix's Avatar
mayagrafix mayagrafix is offline
Old Timer
 
User ID: 5845
Join Date: 5th October 2005
Location: 20° 58' N 89° 38' W
Posts: 501 
As far as I know Government Models do not have a lanyard. Also a pre A1 model magazine comes in two tones. Here is a pix of a manual I bought last week. It is dated from 1964 - 40 years plus! Me thinks you would have more luck selling the Manual with the signatures as a collectors item with the pistol as added value


  #10   Quote post in private message
United States  Old 17th December 2005, 23:24
Johnny Peppers Johnny Peppers is offline
Old Timer
 
User ID: 287
Join Date: 2nd June 2004
Posts: 952 
Lanyard Loop Magazines

The Colt Government Model did indeed come with lanyard loop magazines up to the WWI period. None were issued with the early exposed base magazines, but were issued with the "Keyhole" magazines. The magazines remained two tone in the Government Model right up to the 1940 time period.

 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



Have you checked the M1911.ORG E-zine lately? Click here to visit it.
Reviews of the latest M1911 models and much more.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:31.

Page generated in 0.13246 seconds (92.83% PHP - 7.17% MySQL) with 15 queries

Copyright © John Caradimas 1994-present
The M1911 Pistols Organization

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.