This is a continuation of the thread that I posted about Zebrawood grips being installed on my 5" Stainless Raptor that I took delivery of last Monday. Up until I complained to Kimber last week, the Stainless Raptor II was listed as coming with scaled Rosewood grips and is still pictured with Rosewood grips on the Kimber website. My pistol was ordered in March, long before Kimber supposedly made this running change to the Stainless Raptor line. After a fuss, Kimber agreed to send me Rosewood grips but I had to send them my Zebrawood grips first, at my expense, rendering my pistol useless.

I had other issues with the pistol, and I called Kimber after the initial call about the grips to discuss some other serious quality control issues with my new Stainless Raptor. 1) The mag catch was so out of spec that it sat crooked in the frame and rubbed so badly that it was hard to depress and would get stuck frequently, 2) the barrel/bushing fit was loose and not anything of the quality that I received on my blued Raptor that I purchased in 2007, 3) I measure the trigger pull at 5 lbs 2 oz, out of Kimber's published spec and nowhere close to the smooth 3.5 lb trigger on my blued Raptor mentioned above, 4) the bottom side of the barrel at the ejection port was not even polished (see pictures below). The barrel looks like it was prepped for the original 1911 ejection port, not for one that had been lowered. The rep that handled the grip issue said he didn't have the authority to issue a return tag for other quality issues.





I can't believe the mag catch and the barrel not being polished at the lowered portion of the ejection port were missed during quality control. Kimber is apparently pumping these things out so quickly that they aren't bothering with the quality of the finish work. There's no way someone would have missed the problem with the mag catch if it had been tested before leaving the factory. I don't have a good picture of the mag catch, but there is a significant gap between the catch and the frame nearest the right side stock, and the rub marks from it grinding on the frame are clearly visible when the catch is removed.

Upon a recommendation by a fellow member, I attempted to contact Leslie Edelman, president of Kimber. My calls to him were unanswered and not returned. I decided to contact Dennis Madonia, who was short with me and acted like he was talking to someone who didn't know how to fire a gun. Dennis immediately informed me that I should be talking to customer service, even after I explained to him that the customer service rep was unwilling to address any issues beyond the grips. The conversation ended with Dennis telling me to put 100 rounds through the gun and to call for a return tag. He said that nothing would be done on the barrel/bushing fit if I couldn't wiggle the barrel with my hand and that the trigger would probably stay the same unless I purchased a trigger job. He agreed to polish the bottom portion of the barrel that was untouched and said they would take a look at the mag catch.

This purchase has caused me to look at Kimber in a totally different light in terms of build quality and customer service. For a $1500 gun that took over 6 months to get, these areas should not have been overlooked. It's ridiculous that such an expensive piece has to go straight back to Kimber for issues that should have been addressed before the pistol left the factory.

I've already ordered an Ed Brown mag catch from Midway, and I may see if I can just send Kimber the barrel for polishing to keep from having to send the entire pistol to them. I don't even have the energy to fight with them over the trigger and barrel/bushing fit anymore. I won't do business with them again, and that's enough to make me feel better about the situation. I also canceled my order for an 8400 Advanced Tactical rifle today, which was a $2500 purchase.

Kimber may have built the finest production 1911 a few years ago, but those days are over in my eyes. Quality has gone by the wayside in favor of attempting to satisfy demand.

I believe it was mentioned in your previous thread on all these issues that you should simply get your return tag and send it Kimber for repairs. I believe that chances are that once it is in their possession they will make these issues right. As I understood from your other thread you did not order this handgun, your time frame is based on what a retailer had informed you of. Though this doesn't excuse QC issues I believe it makes a difference as to the production time you are quoting.
Regardless, you can sent it to them to try to make right, or continue to post your dissatisfaction here and have nothing change. Just my humble opinion.

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" "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good"
George Washington

Hope it works out for you.

I called (another maker) when one of the tritium inserts fell out of the rear sight on a two year old 1911. I asked how much a sight would cost since the shipping would be about $60.00 one way. The CS rep first apologized and then said he would have UPS pick it up and pay return freight, as well. I asked if I could have a couple of upgrades done while it was there and split the shipping. "No problem, but we'll still cover the shipping."

That's customer service!

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Eddie

Sure, simple as getting a return tag. I suppose that is the solution, but it doesn't excuse the problems. The fact is this Kimber doesn't come close to meeting the quality of the blued Raptor that I bought in 2007.

I don't understand your beef with my explanation of the time it took to get this pistol. I started looking for a Stainless Raptor in August. I was quoted 8-12 months to order one, as no dealer in my area had one in stock. Finally I found a dealer 4 1/2 hours away that had ordered one back in March. He told me that they should have it by December at the latest. I put a deposit on it over the phone. It came in last week, and I picked it up the same day. It took 6 months for the dealer to get it in hand. What's the problem?

In six months you would think a little QC could have fallen off the shelf and landed close to it.

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Eddie

I am no fan of Kimber, but give them a chance to make it right. I would shoot it enough to make sure it functions O.K. and then call them a politely but firmly "request" a call tag (but wouldn't take no for an answer, so "demand" might be a better term).

Polishing a barrel, replacing a mag catch and tightening a bushing isn't too hard to do, but you shouldn't have to.

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Robert.
NRA Endowment Life Member.
The true danger is when liberty is nibbled away, for expedients, and by parts. - Edmund Burke 1777

Yes, that's one of my biggest problems with Kimber's customer service. Here, I clearly have a product that is subpar, and not once did any rep from Kimber apologize for any inconvenience that this has caused. Everyone there has acted like I am hindering them and has had the attitude that they are doing me a favor by giving me what I paid for.

I have to agree it not so much the fact that the issues exist but the way Kimber reacts. I make mistakes at work but when I do I apologize to the customer and make them right on my dime, not theirs. It is not a complicated theory, take care of the customer.

I have owned 3 Kimbers (UCII, Warrior and Ultra Raptor) The UCII was a horrid piece of junk, worst gun I have ever owned. The Warrior was a pretty decent 1911 and the Ultra Raptor was a nice gun all around. I have none any longer although I wish I had kept the Ultra Raptor now, the other two I do not miss.

I was thinking of buying a SIS Pro but continued reports (and there are alot of them) about customer service like this have me headed me in a different direction. Springers are in the same price range and have a excellent rep for customer service as does S&W. The S&W 1911 I picked up 2 months ago is a gem so far. Anybody at Kimber seeing the picture posted in the OP of the barrel should be bending over backwards to make that right on their dime, not giving the buyer a hard time.

I have a Brown Kobra Carry with no issues so I have not had to deal with customer service but I hear it can be spotty at Brown. When I order my next gun thru George at Gunslinger it will be a Wilson or Nighthawk as those 2 companies seem to appreciate their customers and want them to be happy. Customer service matters even if I never have to use it, it's the principal of the matter that I want and deserve to be treated well when I use a business.

Wake up Kimber you might be selling all you can make right now but this type of business practice is going to catch up to you.

Quickbiscut you are the straw that broke the camels back for me on this issue, thank you for your post. Kimber will not get anymore of my money.

That's a very sad comment on their current QC.

That pistol apparently has very little in common with my previously purchased four, of which I still have three. The stainless Pro that's gone was a very fine pistol; sold to a good friend after a year of repeated "so have you found me a good 1911 yet?" comments.

I agree with the other posts; if you get it to Kimber to see for themselves; they'll most likely take care of the problems.

In the past; I'd have said there'd be no doubt they'd make it right.

Take care,

Rick

I am not trying to minimize your concerns, but simply pointing out that making posts here will not result in correcting them. It sounds like the people you have spoken with have not provided you with the service you deserve, and paid for.
I have had exactly the opposite results from Kimber, and Dennis in the past. I sent my frame in to be polished after scratching it myself. I was told to send it in at my expense and they would contact me with the cost of repair, and expect a 3 week turn around. Dennis called me after a couple of days and said he buffed it at no charge, noticed another small issue I hadn't to cover it under warranty. It was back to me in a week.
Therefore, as I stated previously I would get it to them even if it was at my expense. I suspect that all your issues would be taken care of to your satisfaction.

__________________
" "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good"
George Washington